Australian Politics Forum - Free speech is under threat from Islam ..

polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #135 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:21pm

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 6:53pm:

It has been posted on this site the number of muslims who are actually fighting for terror overseas, or have been arrested here before they got the chance to actually go and fight. This was ages ago the figure at that time was about 400 muslims out of a population of about 400,000 which gives us one in a thousand muslims are totally committed to terror.

Right, so thats your logic - 1 in 1000 muslims have gone to join ISIS or Al Nusra in Syria - therefore 1 in 1000 are "100% committed to terror". Though I'm not sure why you included the claim that this is "right across the muslim spectrum girls boys kids teenagers mature women and men" - given that the only people who have gone to Syria are young male and female adults. Could you explain that one?

The claim is absurd anyway - muslims are not motivated by terror and murder when they sign up for Syria, they are motivated by defending muslims against the oppression of the brutal Assad regime. Regardless of how flawed you think that rationale is - thats the reality of their thinking, and that is the reality of the propaganda that targets these young men and women.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #136 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 1:07am:

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:10pm:

Is this another case of me saying things without actually saying them? Or are you criticising me for not saying them?

No, its me yet again asking you to clarify your cryptic statements.

I'm trying to understand what you meant when you said it depends if an assault on a woman was an attack on her freedom. I questioned this because I consider any physical attack on a woman an attack on her freedom.

So can you tell me a situation where a physical attack on a woman is not an attack on her freedom?

If you can answer this question, you will see what I mean.

Do you see a significant difference in terms of freedom of speech between robbing a woman and killing cartoonists who mock Muhammed?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #137 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:21pm:

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 6:53pm:

It has been posted on this site the number of muslims who are actually fighting for terror overseas, or have been arrested here before they got the chance to actually go and fight. This was ages ago the figure at that time was about 400 muslims out of a population of about 400,000 which gives us one in a thousand muslims are totally committed to terror.

Right, so thats your logic - 1 in 1000 muslims have gone to join ISIS or Al Nusra in Syria - therefore 1 in 1000 are "100% committed to terror". Though I'm not sure why you included the claim that this is "right across the muslim spectrum girls boys kids teenagers mature women and men" - given that the only people who have gone to Syria are young male and female adults. Could you explain that one?

The claim is absurd anyway - muslims are not motivated by terror and murder when they sign up for Syria, they are motivated by defending muslims against the oppression of the brutal Assad regime. Regardless of how flawed you think that rationale is - thats the reality of their thinking, and that is the reality of the propaganda that targets these young men and women.

The point is that the bad bastards are motivated by Islam, nothing else.
NOTHING ELSE.

Get that into your head and we can perhaps then take the next step. But you and the ummah resist the very essence of the problem because it requires you to abandon victimhood. And nothing will prise you off the victimhood 'meme', to use your favorite code word for mindless, reflexive thinking.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #138 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:37pm

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Do you see a significant difference in terms of freedom of speech between robbing a woman and killing cartoonists who mock Muhammed?

Of course there is a difference, but they are both attacks on freedom - are they not?

Now I ask again, what situation can you think of where an assault on a woman is not an attack on her freedom? You don't need to ask a counter-question to answer that.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #139 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:41pm

Soren wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:16pm:

The point is that the bad bastards are motivated by Islam, nothing else.
NOTHING ELSE.

What tosh.

Even FD once argued that this was tosh. Murderers and terrorists are motivated by what they've always been motivated by - power, thrills, politics - since time immemorial. Islam or any other religion is just a means to an end.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #140 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 9:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Do you see a significant difference in terms of freedom of speech between robbing a woman and killing cartoonists who mock Muhammed?

Of course there is a difference, but they are both attacks on freedom - are they not?

Now I ask again, what situation can you think of where an assault on a woman is not an attack on her freedom? You don't need to ask a counter-question to answer that.

I can see the point you are trying to make Gandalf, but I would not call it an attack on freedom, and I am not going to bother arguing the semantics of it with you.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 137782 Gender:	Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam .. Reply #141 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 9:42pm Soren wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:16pm: The point is that the bad bastards are motivated by Islam, nothing else. NOTHING ELSE. Apologist.
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Karnal

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #142 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 11:30pm

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 9:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Do you see a significant difference in terms of freedom of speech between robbing a woman and killing cartoonists who mock Muhammed?

Of course there is a difference, but they are both attacks on freedom - are they not?

Now I ask again, what situation can you think of where an assault on a woman is not an attack on her freedom? You don't need to ask a counter-question to answer that.

I can see the point you are trying to make Gandalf, but I would not call it an attack on freedom,

Ah.

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ian

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #143 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 11:58pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 11:30pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 9:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Do you see a significant difference in terms of freedom of speech between robbing a woman and killing cartoonists who mock Muhammed?

Of course there is a difference, but they are both attacks on freedom - are they not?

Now I ask again, what situation can you think of where an assault on a woman is not an attack on her freedom? You don't need to ask a counter-question to answer that.

I can see the point you are trying to make Gandalf, but I would not call it an attack on freedom,

Ah.

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Yadda

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #144 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 8:44am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:21pm:

moses wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 6:53pm:

It has been posted on this site the number of muslims who are actually fighting for terror overseas, or have been arrested here before they got the chance to actually go and fight. This was ages ago the figure at that time was about 400 muslims out of a population of about 400,000 which gives us one in a thousand muslims are totally committed to terror.

Right, so thats your logic - 1 in 1000 muslims have gone to join ISIS or Al Nusra in Syria - therefore 1 in 1000 are "100% committed to terror". Though I'm not sure why you included the claim that this is "right across the muslim spectrum girls boys kids teenagers mature women and men" - given that the only people who have gone to Syria are young male and female adults. Could you explain that one?

The claim is absurd anyway - muslims are not motivated by terror and murder when they sign up for Syria, they are motivated by defending muslims against the oppression of the brutal Assad regime. Regardless of how flawed you think that rationale is - thats the reality of their thinking, and that is the reality of the propaganda that targets these young men and women.

Google;

over 42 million muslims support Islamic State; 1.5 million in UK

Soren wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:16pm:

The point is that the bad bastards are motivated by Islam, nothing else.
NOTHING ELSE.

Get that into your head and we can perhaps then take the next step.

But you and the ummah resist the very essence of the problem because it requires you to abandon victimhood.

And nothing will prise you off the victimhood 'meme', to use your favorite code word for mindless, reflexive thinking.

Quote:

Orwell insisted that language always be used "as an instrument for expressing and not for concealing or preventing thought," but he understood that not everyone shared his view.

The "was radicalized" construction has become ubiquitous mostly by thoughtless repetition, but to those who deliberately obfuscate, this seemingly inoffensive passive construction provides a way to avoid what has increasingly become the un-nameable.

Maajid Nawaz calls this "the Voldemort effect: the refusal to call Islamism by its proper name."

The 'Radicalization' Fraud

by A.J. Caschetta
January 21, 2016
http://www.meforum.org/5804/politics-radicalization

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #145 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 8:55am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 6:07pm:

But moses Islamic terrorism is the exception in Australia, that is just the most elementary and undisputable fact.

You acknowledged this yourself (0.1% of Australian muslims support terrorism).

All you can do is confect an argument to somehow marry this with your meme about how only the terrorists are the "real" muslims.

So we get the usual, most muslims are either ignorant, weak or 5th columnists.

But there is no getting round the fact that Islamic terrorism is the exception in Australia.

So please do me a favour and stop the fibbing about how this fact "may hold some weight" in your eyes - it doesn't, it just gives you more ammunition to screech about 5th columnists etc.

Muslim Opinion Polls:
A Tiny Minority of Extremists?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam .. Reply #146 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:03am Actually Y - if opinion polls showed muslims in the west rejecting ISIS that would prove your point too. google: taqqiya innit As I've always said, your argument is unfalsifiable.
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Yadda

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #147 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:30am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:03am:

Actually Y - if opinion polls showed muslims in the west rejecting ISIS that would prove your point too.

google: taqqiya innit

As I've always said, your argument is unfalsifiable.

gandalf,

Because my argument(s) are not false.

As i have always stated......
ISLAM, does not teach 'the moslem', tolerance and respect, of those who are not moslems.

PROVABLE.

As i have always stated......
ISLAM [at its very heart!], is not a tolerant and peaceful faith.

PROVABLE.

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #148 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:39am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 8:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:54pm:

Do you see a significant difference in terms of freedom of speech between robbing a woman and killing cartoonists who mock Muhammed?

Of course there is a difference, but they are both attacks on freedom - are they not?

Now I ask again,

what situation can you think of where an assault on a woman is not an attack on her freedom?

You don't need to ask a counter-question to answer that.

gandalf,
What instance of ENCOURAGING assaults on non-moslems, BY ISLAM [and participated in, where there is an 'opportunity', by moslems], .....is not an attack on the freedom(s) of non-moslems ?

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

.

Natural Law....

Quote:

"16. The state of war is a state of enmity and destruction; and therefore declaring by word or action, not a passionate and hasty, but sedate, settled design upon another man's life puts him in a state of war with him against whom he has declared such an intention, and so has exposed his life to the other's power to be taken away by him, or any one that joins with him in his defence, and espouses his quarrel; it being reasonable and just I should have a right to destroy that which threatens me with destruction; for by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred, and one may destroy a man who makes war upon him, or has discovered an enmity to his being, for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion, because they are not under the ties of the common law of reason, have no other rule but that of force and violence, and so may be treated as a beast of prey, those dangerous and noxious creatures that will be sure to destroy him whenever he falls into their power.
17. And hence it is that he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power does thereby put himself into a state of war with him; it being to be understood as a declaration of a design upon his life. For I have reason to conclude that he who would get me into his power without my consent would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it; for nobody can desire to have me in his absolute power unless it be to compel me by force to that which is against the right of my freedom- i.e. make me a slave..."

Of the State of War

- John Locke (1632-1704)

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #149 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:03am

Yadda wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:30am:

gandalf,

Because my argument(s) are not false.

Yadda you spend half your time here quoting muslims who support terrorism to prove that muslims support terrorism - and the other half quoting muslims condemning terrorism to prove that muslims are deceitful. Like I said, your argument is unfalsifiable - and therefore totally inane.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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