Australian Politics Forum - Free speech is under threat from Islam ..

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49071 At my desk.	Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam .. Reply #15 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:36pm Would you agree that Islam is the greatest modern threat to freedom of speech?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #16 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 8:35pm

No I think our governments who constantly use the Islamic bogeyman to distract from their efforts to relentlessly chip away at our freedoms are the biggest threat - closely followed by their useful idiots who have swallowed the whole 'muslims under the bed' meme - demanding that they be banned, killed and nuked - and regularly perpetuate porky pies that sustains this meme.

Or in other words - how its always been since democracy began - just replace "Islam" with "bogeyman of the day"

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam .. Reply #17 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 8:39pm White moslem convert refers to others as useful idiots.
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freediver

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #18 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 9:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 8:35pm:

No I think our governments who constantly use the Islamic bogeyman to distract from their efforts to relentlessly chip away at our freedoms are the biggest threat - closely followed by their useful idiots who have swallowed the whole 'muslims under the bed' meme - demanding that they be banned, killed and nuked - and regularly perpetuate porky pies that sustains this meme.

Or in other words - how its always been since democracy began - just replace "Islam" with "bogeyman of the day"

What freedom of speech have we lost to the government?

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moses

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #19 - Jan 12^th, 2016 at 2:18pm

Quote:

our governments who constantly use the Islamic bogeyman to distract from their efforts to relentlessly chip away at our freedoms are the biggest threat

Gee I've been had.

I really thought the anti islamic terror squads set up around the globe were there for a genuine reason.

I really thought that the figure of one in a thousand Australian muslims, who have conclusively been proven to support islamic terrorism, was something to be worried about.

I really thought the prevalence of Australian muslims who support child marriage and Female Genital Mutilation, was something to be worried about.

I really thought that an Australian muslim who was so deluded by his faith in allah and muhammad he decided to lay siege to a cafe, resulting in the death of an innocent woman, was something to be worried about.

I really thought the fact that Australian muslim kids who are so fanatically indoctrinated by the satanic tenets of islam, they go out and kill police clerks, plan terrorist attacks, pack rape Australian girls (cats meat), etc. etc. etc. was something to be worried about.

Gee I look at the world today, I see muslims who claim to be the morally superior people on earth, what do I see?

An inhumane horde of death, destruction, squalor, illiteracy, poverty and 7th century backwardness.

But then again the muslims and their apologists will always tell us it's not their fault, it's everybody else's.

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« Last Edit: Jan 12^th, 2016 at 2:37pm by moses »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #20 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:47am

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 9:39pm:

What freedom of speech have we lost to the government?

A lot more than we've lost to Islam - would you agree?

In any case, I said "freedoms", not "freedom of speech" - which is just one aspect of it.
I also said "attempts [to chip away at our freedoms]" - not that they have necessarily been successful in all attempts. But the constant threat is there - and the threat is from governments, not Islam or whatever other bogeyman is flavour of the month.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #21 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:49am

moses wrote on Jan 12^th, 2016 at 2:18pm:

Quote:

our governments who constantly use the Islamic bogeyman to distract from their efforts to relentlessly chip away at our freedoms are the biggest threat

Gee I've been had.

I really thought the anti islamic terror squads set up around the globe were there for a genuine reason.

I really thought that the figure of one in a thousand Australian muslims, who have conclusively been proven to support islamic terrorism, was something to be worried about.

I really thought the prevalence of Australian muslims who support child marriage and Female Genital Mutilation, was something to be worried about.

I really thought that an Australian muslim who was so deluded by his faith in allah and muhammad he decided to lay siege to a cafe, resulting in the death of an innocent woman, was something to be worried about.

I really thought the fact that Australian muslim kids who are so fanatically indoctrinated by the satanic tenets of islam, they go out and kill police clerks, plan terrorist attacks, pack rape Australian girls (cats meat), etc. etc. etc. was something to be worried about.

Gee I look at the world today, I see muslims who claim to be the morally superior people on earth, what do I see?

An inhumane horde of death, destruction, squalor, illiteracy, poverty and 7th century backwardness.

But then again the muslims and their apologists will always tell us it's not their fault, it's everybody else's.

closely followed by their useful idiots who have swallowed the whole 'muslims under the bed' meme - demanding that they be banned, killed and nuked - and regularly perpetuate porky pies that sustains this meme.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #22 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:47am:

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 9:39pm:

What freedom of speech have we lost to the government?

A lot more than we've lost to Islam - would you agree?

In any case, I said "freedoms", not "freedom of speech" - which is just one aspect of it.
I also said "attempts [to chip away at our freedoms]" - not that they have necessarily been successful in all attempts. But the constant threat is there - and the threat is from governments, not Islam or whatever other bogeyman is flavour of the month.

Some time ago, neither of us could think of any examples of things you cannot legally say in Australia.

On the other hand, there are plenty of limitations being imposed by fear of Islam around the world, including Australia. That is why there is no Islam equivalent of Life of Brian, and why so many cartoonists, authors literally fear for their lives. It has already had a significant effect. So much so, that when NZ recently reintroduced blasphemy laws, it appeared to be associated with the recent troubles with Islamic fundamentalism.

Are you suggesting that this fear is unjustified or invented?

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moses

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #23 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:36pm

gandalf wrote: Quote:

closely followed by their useful nice people who have swallowed the whole 'muslims under the bed' meme - demanding that they be banned, killed and nuked - and regularly perpetuate porky pies that sustains this meme.

As I see it the muslims will never admit to the truth (islamic doctrine is the cause of islamic atrocities).

They will be encouraged by their apologists to maintain this stance. (the apologists hate the west, Jews, America, Christians etc..)

So islamic atrocities will continue unabated.

The alliance of muslims and their apologists will go to extreme lengths to shut down any critical exposure of the evilness of islam.

However eventually, after much bloodshed right and truth will win the day, islam and it's apologists will lose the battle.

All of which could be avoided if only muslims and their apologists would tell the truth now.

When you see the death and destruction being plied against muslims by muslim and non muslim alike, you people are so fanatically stupid that you have totally lost the ability to look inwards for solutions.

SO it's the muslims choice to be as one with islam, allah, muhammad, and the qur'an. (which results in ongoing unspeakably inhumane atrocities in the muslim world)

But that's your choice gandalf, enjoy islam.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #24 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:16pm

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:42pm:

Some time ago, neither of us could think of any examples of things you cannot legally say in Australia

Yes we did - holocaust denial is unlawful in Australia. I forget - what particular mental gymnastics did you concoct to pretend it isn't?

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:42pm:

Are you suggesting that this fear is unjustified or invented?

No less invented or unjustified than the fear that is causing many muslim women to not wear what they want. Do you consider hijabies and niqabies being assaulted, along with their enablers like Soren who insist that the victims are to blame for being "inconsiderate" - as attacks on freedom? You may as well say that any crime is an attack on freedom - the guy who burgled someone's house is attacking that person's freedom to not be burgled, the woman who got raped had her freedom to not be raped attacked. They are crimes - and on a completely different level to governments cynically rushing through legislation to deny us our rights, enforceable by the full force of the law. The former are by default not tolerated by society and perpetrators are ruthlessly hunted down and punished - the latter are legally sanctioned and cannot be rejected by society without a lot of political wrangling. I know which one I'm more wary of - but you and moses go ahead and blissfully continue to be part of the problem.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam .. Reply #25 - Jan 14^th, 2016 at 3:14pm Quote: but you and moses go ahead and blissfully continue to be part of the problem. What proportion of blame can be laid squarely at the feet of islam and the behaviour of muslims?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #26 - Jan 14^th, 2016 at 4:59pm

moses wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 3:14pm:

What proportion of blame can be laid squarely at the feet of islam and the behaviour of muslims?

For crimes muslim commit? All of it, obviously.

Just as the blame for our government's attack on freedoms lies squarely at the government, and the people who enable them.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #27 - Jan 14^th, 2016 at 5:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:42pm:

Some time ago, neither of us could think of any examples of things you cannot legally say in Australia

Yes we did - holocaust denial is unlawful in Australia. I forget - what particular mental gymnastics did you concoct to pretend it isn't?

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:42pm:

Are you suggesting that this fear is unjustified or invented?

No less invented or unjustified than the fear that is causing many muslim women to not wear what they want. Do you consider hijabies and niqabies being assaulted, along with their enablers like Soren who insist that the victims are to blame for being "inconsiderate" - as attacks on freedom? You may as well say that any crime is an attack on freedom - the guy who burgled someone's house is attacking that person's freedom to not be burgled, the woman who got raped had her freedom to not be raped attacked. They are crimes - and on a completely different level to governments cynically rushing through legislation to deny us our rights, enforceable by the full force of the law. The former are by default not tolerated by society and perpetrators are ruthlessly hunted down and punished - the latter are legally sanctioned and cannot be rejected by society without a lot of political wrangling. I know which one I'm more wary of - but you and moses go ahead and blissfully continue to be part of the problem.

Can I ask you a very simple and straightforward question, Gandy?

In what way do hijabis and niqabis stand for universal freedom, other than wanting to accentuate their own 'freedom' to parade in the public spaces of the secular, democratic West their insistence of being SEEN as inferior to men under sharia?

What other freedom do these women champion? What other freedoms do the hijab and the niqab signify?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #28 - Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:15pm

Soren wrote on Jan 14^th, 2016 at 5:20pm:

In what way do hijabis and niqabis stand for universal freedom

Thats literally as stupid as asking how someone with a baseball cap or a beard can stand for freedom.

I don't even know where to begin with such nonsense, and frankly its not worth my effort. Suffice to say, the belief that an assault on a woman is the woman's fault for what she wore is far more offensive and incompatible to our values and way of life than someone's choice to make themselves look different by what they wear.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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moses

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Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #29 - Jan 14^th, 2016 at 6:23pm

gandalf wrote:
Quote:

For crimes muslim commit? All of it, obviously.

I'll take this as an honest answer (not one where you say *muslims* then fall back onto the old islamic deceit of *but that's not what islam teaches so they're not real muslims*)

If you're being honest, what should be done about the teachings of muhammad, the word of allah and the verses in the qur'an which justifies and urges the atrocities being committed in the name of islam and allah?

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