Australian Politics Forum - ISIS raped her then killed her

Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #150 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 8:25pm Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 8:19pm: You could have just said : Lisa, you're such a soft touch There you go again, not understanding the evil that she had hoped to lend a hand with. link
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freediver

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #151 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:29am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 5:29pm:

So now all the women travelling to the Islamic State to support the 'noble cause' are victims? Or only the ones who end up regretting it?

A child who gets raped and murdered is a victim in anyone's book FD, thats not the issue here. The question here is whether or not she 'deserved' it.

Are they only a victim if they are a child Gandalf? Are you saying this 17 year old girl was a child?

If she deserved it, does that not imply she isn't a victim?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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longweekend58

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #152 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:41am

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:29am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 5:29pm:

So now all the women travelling to the Islamic State to support the 'noble cause' are victims? Or only the ones who end up regretting it?

A child who gets raped and murdered is a victim in anyone's book FD, thats not the issue here. The question here is whether or not she 'deserved' it.

Are they only a victim if they are a child Gandalf? Are you saying this 17 year old girl was a child?

If she deserved it, does that not imply she isn't a victim?

like so many debates in this place, people use words badly. try having a debate about a politician lying and see what people think 'lying' is!

the girl did not DESERVE it. no one does. but she was partly responsible for the outcome by virtue of what she did. political correctness would disagree but victims ARE sometimes partly to blame for what happens to them. this is one such case.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #153 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:44am if we take the word "deserve" out of the wording then we make her a victim she's not a victim - she's a volunteer
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Lord Herbert

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #154 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 9:02am

She went off to join ISIS as a fully-informed late-teenager living in a Western country that has a highly developed and sophisticated news service.

If this girl was from a remote village in the foothills of Afghanistan where the roads are unsealed and the information services are very basic - my heart would go out to this poor girl.

If she had been a dark-skinned Arabic-looking girl with black hair and a hijab, she wouldn't have come to this sorry end. But looking Caucasian, she didn't stand a chance of not arousing the base instincts of the animals she had hoped to join up with like a moll joins up with a bikie gang.

She ended up as a victim, just the same as did all those Yazidi girls who she had had no sympathy for.

Poetic justice.

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« Last Edit: Jan 7^th, 2016 at 9:08am by Lord Herbert »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #155 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 11:37am

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:29am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 5:29pm:

So now all the women travelling to the Islamic State to support the 'noble cause' are victims? Or only the ones who end up regretting it?

A child who gets raped and murdered is a victim in anyone's book FD, thats not the issue here. The question here is whether or not she 'deserved' it.

Are they only a victim if they are a child Gandalf? Are you saying this 17 year old girl was a child?

If she deserved it, does that not imply she isn't a victim?

I tend to view anyone who gets raped and murdered as a victim FD - is that so bizarre? But more importantly, I don't think she deserved it. And yes, as I said before, some victims deserve what they get - but this is not one of them. Someone who is lured in to go to a craphole to unwittingly become a sex slave who will be abused - and then killed when she tries to flee the horror - does not "deserve everything she gets" - and it requires a sick mind to believe she does IMO.

In your first post you compared her to young men who join ISIS and then get killed for trying to escape. Do you not see a difference between luring young men to fight and kill and terrorise, and luring young women to be good housewives? Can you at least appreciate the difference in gender power relations between a man luring a man and a man luring a woman?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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mothra

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #156 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 11:49am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 11:37am:

Someone who is lured in to go to a craphole to unwittingly become a sex slave who will be abused - and then killed when she tries to flee the horror - does not "deserve everything she gets" - and it requires a sick mind to believe she does IMO.

Indeed. And seemingly, we have several sick minds frequenting here.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Maqqa

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #157 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 1:06pm

mothra wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 11:49am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 11:37am:

Someone who is lured in to go to a craphole to unwittingly become a sex slave who will be abused - and then killed when she tries to flee the horror - does not "deserve everything she gets" - and it requires a sick mind to believe she does IMO.

Indeed. And seemingly, we have several sick minds frequenting here.

and it's an even more warped mind who thinks she doesn't

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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freediver

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #158 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 2:03pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 11:37am:

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:29am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 5:29pm:

So now all the women travelling to the Islamic State to support the 'noble cause' are victims? Or only the ones who end up regretting it?

A child who gets raped and murdered is a victim in anyone's book FD, thats not the issue here. The question here is whether or not she 'deserved' it.

Are they only a victim if they are a child Gandalf? Are you saying this 17 year old girl was a child?

If she deserved it, does that not imply she isn't a victim?

I tend to view anyone who gets raped and murdered as a victim FD - is that so bizarre? But more importantly, I don't think she deserved it. And yes, as I said before, some victims deserve what they get - but this is not one of them. Someone who is lured in to go to a craphole to unwittingly become a sex slave who will be abused - and then killed when she tries to flee the horror - does not "deserve everything she gets" - and it requires a sick mind to believe she does IMO.

In your first post you compared her to young men who join ISIS and then get killed for trying to escape. Do you not see a difference between luring young men to fight and kill and terrorise, and luring young women to be good housewives? Can you at least appreciate the difference in gender power relations between a man luring a man and a man luring a woman?

She could be a good housewife in Austria. She went to ISIS to support their cause. I understand the difference in gender relationships, which is why this is so ironic - hence my analogy of the young Jew running off to join the Nazis. The treatment of women by ISIS is hardly a secret, and any woman who tries to support that in any way (and there are no shortage of them among the Muslim population) is scum. Willful self delusion does not make up for that, even if she is a Muslim.

In luring her over to the conflict, do you think the swarthy darkie spun any lines about critics using wishy washy western liberal morals to cynically smear Islam?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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longweekend58

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #159 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 5:09pm

I repeat that she was party to her own fate. She didnt deserve her fate but she did enable it by gross stupidity. If you drink yourself stupid then hop into a car and drive and get killed we all call you stupid. you didnt deserver to die but you are still dead largely because of your own stupidity.

it seems that in todays society there is a real aversion to accepting resposibility for outcomes due to your own bad decisions.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #160 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 7:49pm

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:

The treatment of women by ISIS is hardly a secret, and any woman who tries to support that in any way (and there are no shortage of them among the Muslim population) is scum.

Not everyone has your black and white world view FD. I think it highly unlikely this girl thought to herself 'hey I think its a great idea to support the boys raping and pillaging' - just because thats the only way you can see it. As I said - she was groomed by someone convincing her something else entirely.

Look at it this way - I find it pretty incredible that anyone could believe some of your condescending and borderline racist attitudes towards Afghanis and Iraqis in relation to the atrocities committed by the west, especially when the injustice being inflicted upon them by the west also "is hardly a secret". But I wouldn't call people wanting to support them as "scum" who "deserve everything they get" when they are kidnapped and beheaded by ISIS etc.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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longweekend58

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #161 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 8:22am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 7:49pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 2:03pm:

The treatment of women by ISIS is hardly a secret, and any woman who tries to support that in any way (and there are no shortage of them among the Muslim population) is scum.

Not everyone has your black and white world view FD. I think it highly unlikely this girl thought to herself 'hey I think its a great idea to support the boys raping and pillaging' - just because thats the only way you can see it. As I said - she was groomed by someone convincing her something else entirely.

Look at it this way - I find it pretty incredible that anyone could believe some of your condescending and borderline racist attitudes towards Afghanis and Iraqis in relation to the atrocities committed by the west, especially when the injustice being inflicted upon them by the west also "is hardly a secret". But I wouldn't call people wanting to support them as "scum" who "deserve everything they get" when they are kidnapped and beheaded by ISIS etc.

sorry gandalf, but the facts about ISIS are so well known and so horrific that anyone who joins up with them is complicit in their crimes and responsible in a large way for their own outcomes. The girls could not possibly have not known what ISIS were like. If they were instead simply as gullible as you would suggest, they were victims-in-waiting anyhow for the next LOCAL sociopath to cross their path. they bear the responsibility in large measure for what happened.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Lord Herbert

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #162 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 8:31am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 8:22am:

sorry gandalf, but the facts about ISIS are so well known and so horrific that anyone who joins up with them is complicit in their crimes and responsible in a large way for their own outcomes.

The girls could not possibly have not known what ISIS were like. If they were instead simply as gullible as you would suggest, they were victims-in-waiting anyhow for the next LOCAL sociopath to cross their path. they bear the responsibility in large measure for what happened.

Post of the Day.

Cut your losses gandalf, and have the good grace to quietly concede defeat to the appeals of raw commonsense by melting back into the woodwork to fight another day.

Cool

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freediver

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #163 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 9:35am

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Not everyone has your black and white world view FD.

I did not claim they do. For example, you have been known to go on about critics using wishy washy western liberal morals to cynically smear Islam. Do you think they used the same line on her? It makes the whole rape and pillage thing a grey area don't you think?

Quote:

I think it highly unlikely this girl thought to herself 'hey I think its a great idea to support the boys raping and pillaging' - just because thats the only way you can see it. As I said - she was groomed by someone convincing her something else entirely.

Do you think she had liberty, democracy and humanity in mind instead? What was this "something else entirely"? Perhaps something like your efforts to 'reform' Islam?

Quote:

Look at it this way - I find it pretty incredible that anyone could believe some of your condescending and borderline racist attitudes

Are you saying I am not racist? Is this the whole "not black and white" thing again? I am not actually racist, but not unracist either? Do you think I am tinted, or merely off-white?

Quote:

But I wouldn't call people wanting to support them as "scum" who "deserve everything they get" when they are kidnapped and beheaded by ISIS etc.

So what do you think of people who leave the country to join ISIS?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sun Tzu Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1148 Gender:	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #164 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 9:37am freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 9:35am: So what do you think of people who leave the country to join ISIS? Are you seeking crowd funding?
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