Australian Politics Forum - ISIS raped her then killed her

polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #165 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 10:53am

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 9:35am:

Quote:

Not everyone has your black and white world view FD.

I did not claim they do. For example, you have been known to go on about critics using wishy washy western liberal morals to cynically smear Islam. Do you think they used the same line on her? It makes the whole rape and pillage thing a grey area don't you think?

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I think it highly unlikely this girl thought to herself 'hey I think its a great idea to support the boys raping and pillaging' - just because thats the only way you can see it. As I said - she was groomed by someone convincing her something else entirely.

Do you think she had liberty, democracy and humanity in mind instead? What was this "something else entirely"? Perhaps something like your efforts to 'reform' Islam?

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Look at it this way - I find it pretty incredible that anyone could believe some of your condescending and borderline racist attitudes

Are you saying I am not racist? Is this the whole "not black and white" thing again? I am not actually racist, but not unracist either? Do you think I am tinted, or merely off-white?

Quote:

But I wouldn't call people wanting to support them as "scum" who "deserve everything they get" when they are kidnapped and beheaded by ISIS etc.

So what do you think of people who leave the country to join ISIS?

LOL you're getting worse FD.

Does anyone have their FD translator handy?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #166 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 11:29am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 8:22am:

sorry gandalf, but the facts about ISIS are so well known and so horrific that anyone who joins up with them is complicit in their crimes and responsible in a large way for their own outcomes. The girls could not possibly have not known what ISIS were like. If they were instead simply as gullible as you would suggest, they were victims-in-waiting anyhow for the next LOCAL sociopath to cross their path. they bear the responsibility in large measure for what happened.

Well at least you give comprehensible replies that I can respond to Longy.

You fail to distinguish between what they have heard about ISIS and what they believe about ISIS. It wouldn't be difficult at all to convince an impressionable young girl that all the bad press is nothing but a conspiracy to tarnish a legitimate Islamic resistance movement. Especially in the context of a war so bloody as the Syrian civil war where there is no shortage of emotional narratives to tug the heart strings. And once again I note the irony of you being so incredulous over this girl's beliefs - given such willful ignorance we have on this very forum: eg the person who just gave you a pat on the bum over this post basically posts nothing else but his sinister conspiracies about how immigration policies are aimed at destroying the white man. In fact this view is absolutely rampant on this forum. FD, when he's not making his idiotic cryptic posts, happily defends the war crimes committed against Iraqis, and pins any blame on the death and suffering inflicted on them on muslims - blithely ignoring the fact that the gates of hell were unleashed by the initial invasion by the US - a crime once described at Nuremberg as "the supreme crime" - from which all other war crimes spawn from.

And yet, I don't begrudge FD to have the delusion that the US has only good intentions for the Iraqi people. Even someone who, for example, decided to join a contractor who provided packed lunches to the guards at Abu Ghraib wouldn't "deserve" to get kidnapped and beheaded by Islamists for his complicity in the horrors that occurred there. I certainly wouldn't call them "scum" for deluding themselves into thinking that Abu Ghraib was a wonderful place for Iraqis, and that supporting the occupiers who ran it would be a noble thing.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49094 At my desk.	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #167 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 11:36am So what do you think of people who leave the country to join ISIS? Let me know if you need this question dumbed down a bit.
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Phemanderac

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #168 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 11:37am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:41am:

like so many debates in this place, people use words badly. try having a debate about a politician lying and see what people think 'lying' is!

Indeed and clearly you are no exception to this observation of yours...

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:41am:

the girl did not DESERVE it. no one does. but she was partly responsible for the outcome by virtue of what she did. political correctness would disagree but victims ARE sometimes partly to blame for what happens to them. this is one such case.

Partly to blame? These two girls are entirely responsible for chosing to go and join ISIS - that is all.

Being raped and murdered on the other hand is entirely the responsibility of the rapists and murderers - no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Now many here seem to be enjoying squirming around this topic effectively saying they got what they deserved, despite lacking the fortitude to directly state that (yep, some are directly stating that too, they are just too far gone to even bother with though...)...

NO ONE DESERVES to be raped, murdered, assaulted or harmed by another at any time in anyway shape or form...

That won't stop it happening, people hurt others with monotonous regularity - using terms like justified, deserved etc though, simply remove the responsibility from the guilty party and that is just stupidity beyond belief...

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #169 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 11:57am

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 11:36am:

So what do you think of people who leave the country to join ISIS?

Not much.

But that was never the issue was it? The issue here is your view that certain girls deserve to be raped, tortured and murdered.

What do you think of people who leave the country to support US invasions and occupations?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #170 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 12:19pm

Quote:

What do you think of people who leave the country to support US invasions and occupations?

Who is the US invading and occupying Gandalf? Is this an example of the nonsense the swarthy darkie filled her head with?

You disagreed with my insistence that people who go over there to support ISIS are scum. Why is it suddenly not an issue when asked what you think of them?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #171 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 12:40pm

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 12:19pm:

Who is the US invading and occupying Gandalf?

Seriously though, what do you think of people who signed up as contractors to support the occupiers of Iraq? Some of them were kidnapped and executed by militants. Scum?Deserved it?

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 12:19pm:

You disagreed with my insistence that people who go over there to support ISIS are scum. Why is it suddenly not an issue when asked what you think of them?

I am not sympathetic towards people who support ISIS - and I'd even go so far as to say they are responsible for whatever happens to them. But I'm not going to pretend that all of them are sadists who are motivated by the prospect of inflicting torture and death on others - and therefore blanket label them all as "scum" who deserve to be tortured, raped or killed. People who delude themselves to ignore the facts in front of them, and take actions in accordance with such delusions are not automatically "scum" - even if their delusions contribute to the suffering of others. And they certainly don't deserve to be tortured, raped or murdered as a result. I don't view that for people who support ISIS, just as I don't view that for people who support US invasions and occupations.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #172 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:21pm

Quote:

I am not sympathetic towards people who support ISIS - and I'd even go so far as to say they are responsible for whatever happens to them.

Wow Gandalf. Don't hold back now.

Quote:

But I'm not going to pretend that all of them are sadists who are motivated by the prospect of inflicting torture and death on others - and therefore blanket label them all as "scum" who deserve to be tortured, raped or killed. People who delude themselves to ignore the facts in front of them, and take actions in accordance with such delusions are not automatically "scum" - even if their delusions contribute to the suffering of others. And they certainly don't deserve to be tortured, raped or murdered as a result. I don't view that for people who support ISIS, just as I don't view that for people who support US invasions and occupations.

You have to be particularly committed to actually travel to a war zone to support ISIS. What do you think of them?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #173 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:21pm There is sooooo much wrong what gandalf just wrote
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 137841 Gender:	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #174 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:27pm Maqqa wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:21pm: There is sooooo much wrong what gandalf just wrote Such as?
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35465 Gender:	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #175 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:38pm I can't see anything wrong with it.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #176 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:14pm freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:21pm: You have to be particularly committed to actually travel to a war zone to support ISIS. Did I say they weren't committed?
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 137841 Gender:	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #177 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:21pm Maqqa wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:21pm: There is sooooo much wrong what gandalf just wrote Such as?
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Maqqa

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #178 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:26pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 12:40pm:

I am not sympathetic towards people who support ISIS - and I'd even go so far as to say they are responsible for whatever happens to them. But I'm not going to pretend that all of them are sadists who are motivated by the prospect of inflicting torture and death on others - and therefore blanket label them all as "scum" who deserve to be tortured, raped or killed. People who delude themselves to ignore the facts in front of them, and take actions in accordance with such delusions are not automatically "scum" - even if their delusions contribute to the suffering of others. And they certainly don't deserve to be tortured, raped or murdered as a result. I don't view that for people who support ISIS, just as I don't view that for people who support US invasions and occupations.

Lets be clear - ISIS is motivate by 3 things
(1) Revenge
(2) Conversion people to their version of Islam by force
(3) Establish an Independent country where they could rule

Look at my highlighted points

You can't achieve these 3 points without rape, torture and killing

So a blanket label of them being scum is correct

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Maqqa

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #179 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:27pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 12:40pm:

Seriously though, what do you think of people who signed up as contractors to support the occupiers of Iraq? Some of them were kidnapped and executed by militants. Scum?Deserved it?

It's a job

The contractors accept it as a job and the associated risks

They know the risk - which is why they get paid so much

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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