Australian Politics Forum - ISIS raped her then killed her

freediver

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #180 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:14pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:21pm:

You have to be particularly committed to actually travel to a war zone to support ISIS.

Did I say they weren't committed?

I was trying to make a distinction between them and "people who support ISIS, just as I don't view that for people who support US invasions and occupations."

I thought you might want to go beyond "not sympathetic" to them.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #181 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:30pm

Maqqa wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:26pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 12:40pm:

I am not sympathetic towards people who support ISIS - and I'd even go so far as to say they are responsible for whatever happens to them. But I'm not going to pretend that all of them are sadists who are motivated by the prospect of inflicting torture and death on others - and therefore blanket label them all as "scum" who deserve to be tortured, raped or killed. People who delude themselves to ignore the facts in front of them, and take actions in accordance with such delusions are not automatically "scum" - even if their delusions contribute to the suffering of others. And they certainly don't deserve to be tortured, raped or murdered as a result. I don't view that for people who support ISIS, just as I don't view that for people who support US invasions and occupations.

Lets be clear - ISIS is motivate by 3 things
(1) Revenge
(2) Conversion people to their version of Islam by force
(3) Establish an Independent country where they could rule

Look at my highlighted points

You can't achieve these 3 points without rape, torture and killing

So a blanket label of them being scum is correct

"who deserve to be tortured, raped or killed"

If you believe that, you're no better than them.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #182 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:39pm

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:28pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:14pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 1:21pm:

You have to be particularly committed to actually travel to a war zone to support ISIS.

Did I say they weren't committed?

I was trying to make a distinction between them and "people who support ISIS, just as I don't view that for people who support US invasions and occupations."

I thought you might want to go beyond "not sympathetic" to them.

I don't understand.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #183 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:43pm Never mind. Don't you think that "not sympathetic" is a little restrained for criticism of people travelling to the middle east to support ISIS? Would you say you are "not sympathetic" to Nazis?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #184 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:48pm

Maqqa wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 12:40pm:

Seriously though, what do you think of people who signed up as contractors to support the occupiers of Iraq? Some of them were kidnapped and executed by militants. Scum?Deserved it?

It's a job

The contractors accept it as a job and the associated risks

They know the risk - which is why they get paid so much

There is little difference - the invasion and occupation of Iraq unleashed untold suffering on the Iraqi people. The people who accepted a job that helped keep the wheels of that occupation turning were every bit as complicit in the suffering of others as the women who accept a domestic role in sustaining the so called Islamic State.

Still, neither deserve to be raped, tortured or murdered.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #185 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:51pm Gandalf are you suggesting that support for ISIS is morally equivalent to support for US foreign policy?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #186 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:52pm

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:43pm:

Never mind.

Don't you think that "not sympathetic" is a little restrained for criticism of people travelling to the middle east to support ISIS?

Would you say you are "not sympathetic" to Nazis?

Is that all it is FD? You are a bit miffed that my language is not strong enough?

I guess you prefer "scum" who "deserve everything they get" - right?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #187 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:54pm I prefer scum. That is why I called them scum. Would you also say you are "not sympathetic" to US foreign policy?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #188 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:56pm

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:51pm:

Gandalf are you suggesting that support for ISIS is morally equivalent to support for US foreign policy?

Not at all - its not nearly as bad.

Still, even contractors who supported an occupation that killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions are not "scum" who deserve to be raped tortured or murdered in my book.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #189 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:59pm So ISIS is morally superior to the US? Does that mean if you had to choose between the two, it would be ISIS?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #190 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 3:14pm freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:59pm: So ISIS is morally superior to the US? Very sneaky of you FD, thats not what I said and you know it. US foreign policies, not "The US" - is far worse in terms of death and destruction caused than ISIS, thats just a simple statement of fact.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it? Reply #191 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 3:16pm So ISIS is morally superior to US foreign policy? Is death toll your only measure of this?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #192 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 4:28pm

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

So ISIS is morally superior to US foreign policy?

Again, not what I said - but I understand your need to put words into my mouth. Saying that supporting a system that kills millions world-wide is morally far worse than supporting a system that kills thousands in a confined area - says nothing of the morality of the actual systems in question. Of course ISIS is not "morally superior" to the US policies - for the simple reason that if ISIS could be as destructive as the US then they no doubt would be.

You're in your element here aren't you FD. Lining up another quote for your wiki, or getting some juicy material for your next point scoring thread. Its quite pathetic.

What about your little firecracker here - your revelation that you believe certain women deserve to be raped, tortured and murdered? Surely another FD would get years of material from that one quote wouldn't they?

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Is death toll your only measure of this?

What can I say, I'm a utilitarian.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #193 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 4:39pm

Quote:

Saying that supporting a system that kills millions world-wide is morally far worse than supporting a system that kills thousands in a confined area - says nothing of the morality of the actual systems in question.

So what were you trying to say here?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:56pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:51pm:

Gandalf are you suggesting that support for ISIS is morally equivalent to support for US foreign policy?

Not at all - its not nearly as bad.

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longweekend58

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Re: ISIS raped her then killed her - deserved it?
Reply #194 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 5:11pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:56pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 2:51pm:

Gandalf are you suggesting that support for ISIS is morally equivalent to support for US foreign policy?

Not at all - its not nearly as bad.

Still, even contractors who supported an occupation that killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions are not "scum" who deserve to be raped tortured or murdered in my book.

the 'hundreds of thousands' dead was muslims vs muslims. it was not the Allies. muslims have an apaling habit of murdering each other by the millions eg Iran vs Iraq and who can forget ISIS who ahve killed far more muslims than 'infidels'

before you criticise the west you need to take a good stock at murderous Islam.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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