freediver wrote on Jan 9^th, 2016 at 8:15am:


Rubbish. No one else had any problem understanding this exceedingly simple point.

Let me put it another way then...

If you support the killing of millions by the US all over the world, then that is far more immoral than supporting the killing of hundreds or thousands by ISIS in a small area. Yet that isn't saying ISIS itself is "morally superior" to the US foreign policies - they clearly aren't

Geddit yet???

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9^th, 2016 at 9:14am:


So US foreign policy is morally superior to ISIS, but supporting ISIS is morally superior to supporting US foreign policy?

Is that why you are so reserved in your criticism of people who support ISIS, as people you are "not sympathetic" to? You would rate them as more moral than people whop support US foreign policy?

cods wrote on Jan 9^th, 2016 at 11:05am:


gawd tell me about it 

That is what you said Gandalf. Which bit do you think I got wrong?

I put as much thought into my post as you did yours.

That is what you said Gandalf. Which bit do you think I got wrong?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 6:09pm:

Background and causes[change | change source]
Viet Minh wave their flag over a captured French bunker at Dien Bien Phu in 1954. The French defeat at Dien Bien Phu in the northern part of Vietnam led the Geneva Conference and the resulting partition of Vietnam into north and south at the 17th Parallel. Hanoi was the capital of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North) and Saigon was the capital of the Republic of Vietnam (South).
Viet Minh wave their flag over a captured French bunker at Dien Bien Phu in 1954. The French defeat at Dien Bien Phu in the northern part of Vietnam led the Geneva Conference and the resulting partition of Vietnam into north and south at the 17th Parallel. Hanoi was the capital of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North) and Saigon was the capital of the Republic of Vietnam (South).
Map of a partitioned Vietnam from a 1964 U.S. Government pamphlet. Communist-controlled North Vietnam is in red; almost all of the ground-fighting was in the non-communist South.
Map of a partitioned Vietnam from a 1964 U.S. Government pamphlet. Communist-controlled North Vietnam is in red; almost all of the ground-fighting was in the non-communist South.
France began to colonize Vietnam between 1859 and 1862, when they took control of Saigon. By 1864 they controlled all of Cochinchina, the southern part of Vietnam. France took control of Annam, the large central part of Vietnam, in 1874. After France defeated China in the Sino-French war (1884–1885), they took over Tonkin, the northern part of Vietnam. French Indochina was formed in October 1887 from these three areas of Vietnam; Cochinchina, Annam and Tonkin, as well as the Kingdom of Cambodia. Laos was added after a war with Thailand, the Franco-Siamese War, in 1893.

During World War II, after the Nazi Germany's defeated France in 1940, French Indochina was controlled by the Vichy French government, a puppet government approved by Nazi Germany. In March 1945 Imperial Japan launched the Second French Indochina Campaign. Japan occupied Indochina until their surrender in August 1945.

After the defeat of Nazi Germany the Vichy government was no longer in control of France or its territories. The newly formed Provisional Government of the French Republic attempted to take back control of its former colonies in Indochina by force if necessary. But the French efforts at regaining their colony in Vietnam were opposed by a Vietnamese army called the Viet Minh.


Hồ Chí Minh
The Viet Minh had been founded in 1941 by the communist party and was led by Hồ Chí Minh. This led to the First Indochina War between France and the Viet Minh. The fighting started with the French bombardment of Haiphong Harbor in November 1946 and ended with a triumph of the Viet Minh at Dien Bien Phu.

In July 1954, France and the Viet Minh signed the Geneva Peace Accord. This resulted in dividing Vietnam along the 17th parallel into a northern section, under the control of the communist led by Ho Chi Minh as president, and a southern section led by the Catholic anti-communist Ngo Dinh Diem. The partition was to be temporary until elections in 1956. However Diem started arresting suspected communist sympathizers in 1956 to keep power for himself. The elections were never held, and in 1957 the north Vietnamese began guerilla warfare against the south.

The United States supported the anti-communist government in South Vietnam. It began to send military advisers to help train and support the South Vietnamese army. The South was fighting against the Viet Cong, a communist party based in South Vietnam which was allied with North Vietnam. The Viet Cong began a campaign of assassination in 1957. In 1959, North Vietnam dramatically increased its military assistance to the Viet Cong, which then began attacking South Vietnamese military units. The Americans were afraid of the 'domino theory'.