Australian Politics Forum - moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US

polite_gandalf

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #135 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:27pm

Oh FD, I'm not afraid to own it - the US is an imperialist that systematically tramps around the third world destroying democracy wherever they feel it hinders their economic interests. Of course this includes Iraq, where the US fought tooth and nail against the whole setting up of democracy thing. It was only because of a mass grassroots shiite movement that saw something resembling a democracy - but certainly no thanks to the US efforts. And it makes sense - Iraqi democracy can really only mean one thing - the majority shiite population voting to align themselves closely with shiite Iran, who is considered a direct threat to the US's Gulf buddies.

Now tell me again you are unsure of whether I think the US is "trying" to set up democracy in Iraq - I dare you.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #136 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:34pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:12pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:05pm:

It is your and Karnal's really bad luck - and it shows up your argument as nothing more than shallow rancour (a very Muslim/Lefty trait) - that establishing democracy happens to be also the best way to establish security for ANY business, including friends', and enemies' business.

Really S? Apparently the US government has been getting that memo all these years. All this time they've been thinking a friendly dictator is best for business.

And then they switched to 'let the Arabs determine their societies, they are just like us, after all" - and see what happened.

Murder and sectarian mayhem - because the Arabs are NOT like us. They are Arabs, they are Muslims.

So now, having given the opportunity to exercise political compromise, what do they do? They go back to 1400 years of vendetta and sectarian blood letting. With mobile phones and Toyotas. But mentally you have still not cleared the 78th century.

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freediver

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #137 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:38pm

Quote:

Of course this includes Iraq, where the US fought tooth and nail against the whole setting up of democracy thing.

So how deep does this rabbit hole go Gandalf?

Quote:

It was only because of a mass grassroots shiite movement that saw something resembling a democracy - but certainly no thanks to the US efforts.

Are you saying that they opened their eyes without the assistance of Uncle Sam?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #138 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Oh FD, I'm not afraid to own it - the US is an imperialist that systematically tramps around the third world destroying democracy wherever they feel it hinders their economic interests. Of course this includes Iraq, where the US fought tooth and nail against the whole setting up of democracy thing. It was only because of a mass grassroots shiite movement that saw something resembling a democracy - but certainly no thanks to the US efforts. And it makes sense - Iraqi democracy can really only mean one thing - the majority shiite population voting to align themselves closely with shiite Iran, who is considered a direct threat to the US's Gulf buddies.

Now tell me again you are unsure of whether I think the US is "trying" to set up democracy in Iraq - I dare you.

What did the shites do with democracy? They grabbed the opportunity to stick it the the sunni jims with a vengeance.

They are intemperate children, the Muslims, whether they are shites or sunni jims. I can't see them setting aside religion, tribe, clan because that would require setting aside everything that defines them. They haven't done it in 1400 years and they will not start doing it now. You can give them mobile phones and Toyotas and they will use them to kill each other and the kuffar.

Jihad has no end except when everyone submits. And that's not going to happen - so we will have jihad until Islam collapses and disappears like Minoan religion.

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Soren

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #139 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:10pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:05pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:34pm:

Give back to Jews Israel and let the Muslim Arabs have the REST of the Eastern Roman Empire that THEY have conquered (but have a far lesser claim to than Jews do to Israel).

I'm sure that made sense to you. All I really care about is peace on this Planet, and while Israel exists surrounded by Arab 'barbarians,' I have little hope. I'm quite happy to see them blast the crap out of each other. All I want is that the West (especially Australia) get the ???? out of there.

We have failed every time we poked our dumb arse nose in...........for centuries.

So you are an isolationist. We should stop Arab and Israeli immigration to Australia. From what other conflict zones should we bar immigrants?
Be consistent once in your life, milk monitor.

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Karnal

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #140 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:22pm

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:38pm:

Quote:

Of course this includes Iraq, where the US fought tooth and nail against the whole setting up of democracy thing.

So how deep does this rabbit hole go Gandalf?

Quote:

It was only because of a mass grassroots shiite movement that saw something resembling a democracy - but certainly no thanks to the US efforts.

Are you saying that they opened their eyes without the assistance of Uncle Sam?

Your turn, FD.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #141 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:23pm yes
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Karnal

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #142 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:29pm

Soren wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Oh FD, I'm not afraid to own it - the US is an imperialist that systematically tramps around the third world destroying democracy wherever they feel it hinders their economic interests. Of course this includes Iraq, where the US fought tooth and nail against the whole setting up of democracy thing. It was only because of a mass grassroots shiite movement that saw something resembling a democracy - but certainly no thanks to the US efforts. And it makes sense - Iraqi democracy can really only mean one thing - the majority shiite population voting to align themselves closely with shiite Iran, who is considered a direct threat to the US's Gulf buddies.

Now tell me again you are unsure of whether I think the US is "trying" to set up democracy in Iraq - I dare you.

What did the shites do with democracy?

Let’s see. They elected a government who drew up a plan to nationalize Iranian oil. Uncle didn’t like this, so he supported a coup by the Shah, who left business as usual, set up a secret police and torture cells, armed and trained by Uncle.

Good old Uncle, eh? Do you think he changed the plan in Iraq? FD won’t say.

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Soren

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #143 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:36pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:29pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Oh FD, I'm not afraid to own it - the US is an imperialist that systematically tramps around the third world destroying democracy wherever they feel it hinders their economic interests. Of course this includes Iraq, where the US fought tooth and nail against the whole setting up of democracy thing. It was only because of a mass grassroots shiite movement that saw something resembling a democracy - but certainly no thanks to the US efforts. And it makes sense - Iraqi democracy can really only mean one thing - the majority shiite population voting to align themselves closely with shiite Iran, who is considered a direct threat to the US's Gulf buddies.

Now tell me again you are unsure of whether I think the US is "trying" to set up democracy in Iraq - I dare you.

What did the shites do with democracy?

Let’s see. They elected a government who drew up a plan to nationalize Iranian oil. Uncle didn’t like this, so he supported a coup by the Shah, who left business as usual, set up a secret police and torture cells, armed and trained by Uncle.

Good old Uncle, eh? Do you think he changed the plan in Iraq? FD won’t say.

Thank you, stupid.

That was 40 years ago. Talk about what happened 10 years ago in Iraq, PB. After all, we didn't 'invade' the Persians - they invaded the US embassy (and now the Saudi one - trust them to observe international niceties).

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Karnal

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #144 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:55pm

Soren wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:29pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Oh FD, I'm not afraid to own it - the US is an imperialist that systematically tramps around the third world destroying democracy wherever they feel it hinders their economic interests. Of course this includes Iraq, where the US fought tooth and nail against the whole setting up of democracy thing. It was only because of a mass grassroots shiite movement that saw something resembling a democracy - but certainly no thanks to the US efforts. And it makes sense - Iraqi democracy can really only mean one thing - the majority shiite population voting to align themselves closely with shiite Iran, who is considered a direct threat to the US's Gulf buddies.

Now tell me again you are unsure of whether I think the US is "trying" to set up democracy in Iraq - I dare you.

What did the shites do with democracy?

Let’s see. They elected a government who drew up a plan to nationalize Iranian oil. Uncle didn’t like this, so he supported a coup by the Shah, who left business as usual, set up a secret police and torture cells, armed and trained by Uncle.

Good old Uncle, eh? Do you think he changed the plan in Iraq? FD won’t say.

Thank you, stupid.

That was 40 years ago. Talk about what happened 10 years ago in Iraq, PB.

You do seem rather keen to limit the perameters of our discussion, old boy.

That’s your democratic streak showing, eh?

Carpetbomb them.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #145 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 10:41pm Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:55pm: You do seem rather keen to limit the perameters of our discussion, old boy You better believe it K - 40 years ago is far too long ago. The only acceptable parameters here are yesterday and 1400 years ago during The Prophet's time. Just ask FD.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95911 Gender:	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #146 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 11:23pm Sorry, G, we’ll have to run that past the old boy. Old boy, is it alright if we discuss always absolutely never ever?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #147 - Jan 27^th, 2016 at 7:46pm Gandalf can you explain how the Shites are responsible for the democracy and not America?
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Soren

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #148 - Jan 27^th, 2016 at 8:38pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:55pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:29pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:42pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Oh FD, I'm not afraid to own it - the US is an imperialist that systematically tramps around the third world destroying democracy wherever they feel it hinders their economic interests. Of course this includes Iraq, where the US fought tooth and nail against the whole setting up of democracy thing. It was only because of a mass grassroots shiite movement that saw something resembling a democracy - but certainly no thanks to the US efforts. And it makes sense - Iraqi democracy can really only mean one thing - the majority shiite population voting to align themselves closely with shiite Iran, who is considered a direct threat to the US's Gulf buddies.

Now tell me again you are unsure of whether I think the US is "trying" to set up democracy in Iraq - I dare you.

What did the shites do with democracy?

Let’s see. They elected a government who drew up a plan to nationalize Iranian oil. Uncle didn’t like this, so he supported a coup by the Shah, who left business as usual, set up a secret police and torture cells, armed and trained by Uncle.

Good old Uncle, eh? Do you think he changed the plan in Iraq? FD won’t say.

Thank you, stupid.

That was 40 years ago. Talk about what happened 10 years ago in Iraq, PB.

You do seem rather keen to limit the perameters of our discussion, old boy.

That’s your democratic streak showing, eh?

Carpetbomb them.

Very well, let's carpet bomb Persia for attacking Athens and the Greek city states, arse'ole. Whichever way you look at it, 10, 40, 1400 or 2500 years, they have been the enemy at every point. Because they are alien barbarians, thinking, acting, valuing radically differently. Now, then and always in between. And no multiculti pap will change that.

The same goes for the broader Muslim historical project - they have always been an enemy of the West and still are. Islam has been at war with the West from its inception and still is.

As Oscar Wilde said of the wall paper in the room where he died: 'one of us will have to go". The same for Western culture and Islam - one of them will have to go. You are on the side of the annihilators of the West and you know it. That's why I (and millions of others) think you're an arse'ole, PB.
I am for the defeat of the enemies of the West.i

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95911 Gender:	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #149 - Jan 27^th, 2016 at 8:50pm Good of you to reference Athens, dear boy. Do you know what you are? You’re a democrat.
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