Australian Politics Forum - moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US

Karnal

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #60 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:46am

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 10:36am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:55am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 9:52am:

He also criticised them for trying to establish democracy.

No he didn't. He criticised them for not even trying.

Like I said, get a clue.

Karnal do you think we are not even trying to set up democracy in Iraq?

No, FD, I think all "we’ve" ever tried to do is establish security for "our" friends’ business. US policy in Iraq has stumbled from crisis to crisis. None ofits plans worked, and few were ever achieved. It has secured the oil supply (in non-ISIS controlled ares), okay. But for how long?

Now I’ve answered yours, will you answer mine?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #61 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 1:45pm I am not sure what your answer is Karnal. It appears you threw in an unintentional double negative.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #62 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 3:03pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 1:22am: What he said couldn't be clearer - invasions of sovereign nations to install anything = bad. Its the invasion part thats bad - geddit? Yeah, right - and Syria proves your point perfectly, eh?
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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 95926 Gender:	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #63 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 3:34pm freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 1:45pm: I am not sure what your answer is Karnal. It appears you threw in an unintentional double negative. I'm not sure what yours is either. You won't say. Google taqiyya, eh?
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Redmond Neck Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 21631 ACT Gender:	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #64 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 3:37pm I think he is playing you Karnal! He is a fisherman after all!
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Karnal

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #65 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 3:41pm

Redmond Neck wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 3:37pm:

I think he is playing you Karnal!

Oh, I know. This is FD-style debate at its best. He's learned every thing he knows from posters like Mattywisk, Jocko-Homo, Sprintcyclist et al.

And he's unlearned everything he learned at uni.

Now that's dedication. Cunning, no?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #66 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 6:45pm Is asking you to make sense too much of an imposition Karnal?
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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 95926 Gender:	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #67 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:01pm I asked you first, FD.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #68 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:02pm Made perfect sense to me FD - what part of "no (they didn't try and setup democracy) all "we’ve" ever tried to do is establish security for "our" friends’ business." - are you having difficulty understanding?
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Karnal

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #69 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:07pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:02pm:

Made perfect sense to me FD - what part of "no (they didn't try and setup democracy) all "we’ve" ever tried to do is establish security for "our" friends’ business." - are you having difficulty understanding?

No, I think he's having difficulty answering.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #70 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:29pm Here you go Gandalf - the first time I explained it. freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 1:45pm: I am not sure what your answer is Karnal. It appears you threw in an unintentional double negative.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #71 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:30pm

I think poor FD is confused. The problem seems to have arisen here:

Quote:

You complained that they took 5 years to do it, then complained that they should have taken much longer to lay the groundwork, or allow one to be laid.

From that point on FD's been running with an argument presupposed on the mistaken belief that you actually advocate the west imposing something - the only question being over what exactly; a postponed democracy? a dictatorship?

But of course you never said any such thing. FD made a claim about democracy being gifted to Iraq, and you merely pointed out the fact that it was nothing of the sort. Poor FD somehow mixed that up with you saying 'they didn't impose democracy - therefore thats what I advocate'. What you did advocate - abundantly clearly - is for the US to stay out of the intervention business altogether.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #72 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:34pm

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:29pm:

Here you go Gandalf - the first time I explained it.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 1:45pm:

I am not sure what your answer is Karnal. It appears you threw in an unintentional double negative.

Here you go FD - is this clear enough for you?

Karnal wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 2:42pm:

No, FD, I'd prefer what the UN would prefer: leaving sovereign states alone unless they prove a threat to others.

Wouldn't you? Why or why not?

Explain to me FD - how do get "Karnal wants to impose dictatorships" from "I'd prefer... leaving sovereign states alone"?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US
Reply #73 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:37pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:30pm:

I think poor FD is confused. The problem seems to have arisen here:

Quote:

You complained that they took 5 years to do it, then complained that they should have taken much longer to lay the groundwork, or allow one to be laid.

From that point on FD's been running with an argument presupposed on the mistaken belief that you actually advocate the west imposing something - the only question being over what exactly; a postponed democracy? a dictatorship?

But of course you never said any such thing. FD made a claim about democracy being gifted to Iraq, and you merely pointed out the fact that it was nothing of the sort. Poor FD somehow mixed that up with you saying 'they didn't impose democracy - therefore thats what I advocate'. What you did advocate - abundantly clearly - is for the US to stay out of the intervention business altogether.

Yes G, but FD's free to place his own interpretation on things, shurely. Why shouldn't he read such thoughts as supporting dictatorships?

This is how FD pleasures himself.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: moral equivalence of supporting ISIS vs US Reply #74 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 7:41pm I asked for a simple clarification on an apparent grammatical error that changed the meaning of his response. It really isn't that complicated Gandalf, and I am sure Karnal doesn't need your support to get through it.
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