Australian Politics Forum - GST & Tax Cuts

Dnarever

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #15 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:22pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:01pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:34pm:

Labor voter wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:21am:

As we all know some of the state premiers are pushing for a increase in the GST to 15% and the Federal Government has said that they we give us a tax cut so no one will be worst off.

No that is incorrect - almost everyone will be much worse off, they promise tax cuts so that the worst off will not be worse off, everyone else will.

Depends upon whether you think getting more or improved public services is being worse off or not?

How many posts are started by resident leftists whinging about cuts to government spending and services? Swags. That's how many.... Cheesy

Now here's your chance to get more spending and more BSPSs.

I don't see how increasing taxes to replace the $80 Billion the Liberals took out of Health and education will provide any new service - all it will do is to help prevent the loss of more services.

Say again? You don't see how giving the states more money for services won't provide more services?

They are not really getting more money just replacing the money they lost in the previous federal budget.

The government are double dipping on our tax dollars, we already paid for it once and now they want us to pay for it again.

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Dnarever

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #16 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:25pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:01pm:

I don't see how increasing taxes to replace the $80 Billion the Liberals took out of Health and education

Source ? Or are you telling porky pies again?

You should be up with the basics - This has been a known from the beginning of the process.

The Federal Government (Joe) stripping money from Health and education was done to provide an incentive for the states to push for an increase to the GST.

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Swagman

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #17 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:34pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:25pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:10pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:01pm:

I don't see how increasing taxes to replace the $80 Billion the Liberals took out of Health and education

Source ? Or are you telling porky pies again?

You should be up with the basics - This has been a known from the beginning of the process.

The Federal Government (Joe) stripping money from Health and education was done to provide an incentive for the states to push for an increase to the GST.

You said $80 Billion.

$80 Billion is 80% of health & education budget. Roll Eyes

source

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mariacostel

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #18 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:34pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:01pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:34pm:

Labor voter wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:21am:

As we all know some of the state premiers are pushing for a increase in the GST to 15% and the Federal Government has said that they we give us a tax cut so no one will be worst off.

No that is incorrect - almost everyone will be much worse off, they promise tax cuts so that the worst off will not be worse off, everyone else will.

Depends upon whether you think getting more or improved public services is being worse off or not?

How many posts are started by resident leftists whinging about cuts to government spending and services? Swags. That's how many.... Cheesy

Now here's your chance to get more spending and more BSPSs.

I don't see how increasing taxes to replace the $80 Billion the Liberals took out of Health and education will provide any new service - all it will do is to help prevent the loss of more services.

Say again? You don't see how giving the states more money for services won't provide more services?

They are not really getting more money just replacing the money they lost in the previous federal budget.

The government are double dipping on our tax dollars, we already paid for it once and now they want us to pay for it again.

And this is a perfect example of why no one will ever listen to you on tax policy. All you ever do is criticise a Liberal policy no matter what.

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Dnarever

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #19 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:08pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:34pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:01pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:34pm:

Labor voter wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:21am:

As we all know some of the state premiers are pushing for a increase in the GST to 15% and the Federal Government has said that they we give us a tax cut so no one will be worst off.

No that is incorrect - almost everyone will be much worse off, they promise tax cuts so that the worst off will not be worse off, everyone else will.

Depends upon whether you think getting more or improved public services is being worse off or not?

How many posts are started by resident leftists whinging about cuts to government spending and services? Swags. That's how many.... Cheesy

Now here's your chance to get more spending and more BSPSs.

I don't see how increasing taxes to replace the $80 Billion the Liberals took out of Health and education will provide any new service - all it will do is to help prevent the loss of more services.

Say again? You don't see how giving the states more money for services won't provide more services?

They are not really getting more money just replacing the money they lost in the previous federal budget.

The government are double dipping on our tax dollars, we already paid for it once and now they want us to pay for it again.

And this is a perfect example of why no one will ever listen to you on tax policy. All you ever do is criticise a Liberal policy no matter what.

It does seem that under this government a lot of policy needs to be criticised. Maybe the Liberals should find a better government ?

Maybe Try Tony Abbotts suggestion to start good government, sometime soon would be an idea ?

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mariacostel

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #20 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:26pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:08pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:34pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:01pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:34pm:

Labor voter wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:21am:

As we all know some of the state premiers are pushing for a increase in the GST to 15% and the Federal Government has said that they we give us a tax cut so no one will be worst off.

No that is incorrect - almost everyone will be much worse off, they promise tax cuts so that the worst off will not be worse off, everyone else will.

Depends upon whether you think getting more or improved public services is being worse off or not?

How many posts are started by resident leftists whinging about cuts to government spending and services? Swags. That's how many.... Cheesy

Now here's your chance to get more spending and more BSPSs.

I don't see how increasing taxes to replace the $80 Billion the Liberals took out of Health and education will provide any new service - all it will do is to help prevent the loss of more services.

Say again? You don't see how giving the states more money for services won't provide more services?

They are not really getting more money just replacing the money they lost in the previous federal budget.

The government are double dipping on our tax dollars, we already paid for it once and now they want us to pay for it again.

And this is a perfect example of why no one will ever listen to you on tax policy. All you ever do is criticise a Liberal policy no matter what.

It does seem that under this government a lot of policy needs to be criticised. Maybe the Liberals should find a better government ?

Maybe Try Tony Abbotts suggestion to start good government, sometime soon would be an idea ?

Did you think that drivel was a potent argument? Given that the economy is improving in globally difficult circumstances would indicate they are doing a good job with good policies. Not every policy's worth is determined by you personal hip-pocket nerve.

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John Smith

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #21 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:28pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 11:58am:

You have to look at what the GST is spent on.

Well, according to the libs, it's going to pay of all our debt
fund education now and into the future
fund health now and into the future
pay for income tax cuts
pay for compensation
pay for company tax cuts

hmmm, maybe they should put up the GST to 50%? Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75280 Gender:	Re: GST & Tax Cuts Reply #22 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:29pm mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:26pm: Did you think that drivel was a potent argument? I don' think he thought he was presenting an argument ... I suspect he thought he was merely presenting facts. What part did he get wrong?
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mariacostel

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #23 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:43pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:29pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:26pm:

Did you think that drivel was a potent argument?

I don' think he thought he was presenting an argument ... I suspect he thought he was merely presenting facts. What part did he get wrong?

Just as ignorant as ever, I see. I spent holidays with a variety of friends, one of them a Professor and another a Liberal Party candidate (blue-ribbon labor seat). It was a delight to indulge in intelligent reparte, knowing that the hearer - even if they disagreed with your - actually understood what was said. I could use words - some of them big words - and know that they were understood.

Nothing like here with ignorami like you (see the Latin plural?)

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John Smith

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #24 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:55pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:43pm:

Just as ignorant as ever, I see. I spent holidays with a variety of friends, one of them a Professor and another a Liberal Party candidate (blue-ribbon labor seat). It was a delight to indulge in intelligent reparte, knowing that the hearer - even if they disagreed with your - actually understood what was said. I could use words - some of them big words - and know that they were understood.

Nothing like here with ignorami like you (see the Latin plural?)

they couldn't have been that intelligent

after all, you claim you understood them.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bam

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #25 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:54pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:13pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 12:02pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 11:58am:

You have to look at what the GST is spent on.

A 15% GST in 2015-16 fiscal year would generate around an extra $28 Billion nationally. source:

This $28 billion would be redistributed almost entirely into public services but public services also spend vast sums on private suppliers and will need more govt employees to provide the extra public services.

Incorrect.

The GST goes into the Consolidated Revenue Fund, pursuant to Section 81 of the Constitution.

I guess you didn't bother to read the link?

Quote:

In 2013–14, the Australian Government is estimated to provide $95.3 billion in payments to the states and territories (states).[1] Of these payments, $11.5 billion is designated for local government.[2]

Two types of payments are made to states: specific purpose payments (SPPs) and general revenue assistance (GRA). SPPs are made according to agreements between the Australian Government and the various states. The total amount of SPPs to be paid to the states in 2013‑14 is estimated to be $44.1 billion.[3] The largest categories of SPPs in 2013–14 relate to health ($16.1 billion) and education ($14.5 billion).[4]

GRA is financial assistance that may be spent upon any purpose, and is mainly comprised of the Goods and Services Tax (GST) revenue.

So are you saying the States don't get the GST revenue Bam?

Any argument that a particular Federal tax pays for particular expenditure is technically incorrect, see the citation provided. The Budget appropriations for state assistance are not actually required to match the amount of the GST raised.

Another example - the Medicare levy is supposed to fund Medicare, but the Federal Government has been diverting Medicare revenue for other purposes for 20 years (eg: gun buyback levy), and especially so in the past few years when the Medicare funds have been growing but the Liberals have frozen Medicare rebates.

The reason?

All Federal taxes raised go into the Consolidated Revenue Fund. If any do not, they are not constitutional.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: GST & Tax Cuts Reply #26 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:01pm Put the GST onto private health insurance and remove the rebate. That should raise about $8B a year, or somewhat less if we also remove the 1% surcharge on high income earners without private health insurance.
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Swagman

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #27 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:10pm

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:54pm:

All Federal taxes raised go into the Consolidated Revenue Fund. If any do not, they are not constitutional

So what? It's where it ends up and what the States do with it that's important.

The States can potentially receive 50% more general revenue assistance? Why would any State Govt Labor or Coalition be against that? Sad

I'll say again, why would the State's public service unions be against it?

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stunspore

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #28 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:28pm

how about fed govt properly help fund states instead of relying on gst? Not enough money? How about take money from those who have it - not those who don't or not enough.

The libs go .. blah blah, rich pay too much, blah blah. Well I am happy to have this take it to the vote. For those who claim this just majority oppressing minority - I suppose it's more "fair" that the more tax they pay, the more votes they get? No doubt those rich won't get many votes - due to all those tax deductions.

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Bam

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Re: GST & Tax Cuts
Reply #29 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 8:43pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:10pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:54pm:

All Federal taxes raised go into the Consolidated Revenue Fund. If any do not, they are not constitutional

So what? It's where it ends up and what the States do with it that's important.

The States can potentially receive 50% more general revenue assistance? Why would any State Govt Labor or Coalition be against that? Sad

I'll say again, why would the State's public service unions be against it?

You still don't seem to get it. There is no guarantee that money raised by a particular tax will be spent in any particular way. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Nobody else - not even Morrison - is claiming that 100% of any GST rise will go to the states. Why do you?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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