Australian Politics Forum - The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand

polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #105 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 10:56pm

Why is it so difficult for you to explain how the girls are the most submissive here FD? Or would you like to have another go at "I never said they were being submissive"? That might work.

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 10:49pm:

Ah, so you are incapable of answering the question?

Literally I am - since you demand that I nominate who is being most submissive in a picture where I don't acknowledge any submissiveness going on. Or, if you like, my final answer is "none of them".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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John Smith

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #106 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:11pm

freediver wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 10:56pm:

Good point John. We should simply ignore the photo of women in letter box outfits that you used to demonstrate how not sexist Muslims are. Perhaps you would like to try changing the topic again? I am sure you can figure it out eventually. Try asking yourself what you would make your wife wear to demonstrate her freedom.

try to focus FD, one issue at a time .. forget the letterbox outfit. Afterall, you don't have to wear one if you don't want to.

Your claim with the other photo is that Islamic men won't give up their seats because they want their women to be submissive/sexist or some such crap ... if thats the case, can you explain the photo I put up with Islamic women in the seats whilst the men are standing?

Unless you really think they are Christians in disguise?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #107 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:24am

John Smith wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:11pm:

Your claim with the other photo is that Islamic men won't give up their seats because they want their women to be submissive/sexist or some such crap

Yes, but simultaneously he will deny it. For some reason FD doesn't want to expand on his point - maybe he feels embarrassed or something. So he plays these absurd games - like denying he was making any point about submissiveness, and then throwing questions at you to make you explain his own points. Its probably so that he can accuse us of avoiding his questions - and so he'll spend another 10 pages demonstrating how we love to tapdance, and he doesn't have to explain his BS. Thats FD in a nutshell.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #108 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 6:57am

John Smith wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:11pm:

try to focus FD, one issue at a time .. forget the letterbox outfit. Afterall, you don't have to wear one if you don't want to.

Your claim with the other photo is that Islamic men won't give up their seats because they want their women to be submissive/sexist or some such crap ... if thats the case, can you explain the photo I put up with Islamic women in the seats whilst the men are standing?

Unless you really think they are Christians in disguise?

Interesting you chose a picture of Arabs all in their societal traditional dress. Again, the men in these societies (and reflected in their laws) have no argument with the notion that women are (and ought to be) subservient to men... The rhetorical gymnastics performed by some in western societies to 'account for' or deny this seems Quixotic in its apology, given that no Arab is asking them to apologise for them.

What many Middle Eastern Muslims are culturally shocked by, when they come to the west, is the degree to which Islamic culture is criticised regarding the issue of female subservience (with 'degree' meaning any criticism at all)... The reason? Because so many have never, in their Middle Eastern lives, heard anyone criticise their culture in this way... It just has not occurred to them that women are fully (either culturally or legally) equal to men in an Islamic context.

And to say that they choose their cultural dress (such that they can choose to wear what they like), in those societies, is just plain untrue.

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John Smith

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #109 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:50am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 6:57am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 11:11pm:

try to focus FD, one issue at a time .. forget the letterbox outfit. Afterall, you don't have to wear one if you don't want to.

Your claim with the other photo is that Islamic men won't give up their seats because they want their women to be submissive/sexist or some such crap ... if thats the case, can you explain the photo I put up with Islamic women in the seats whilst the men are standing?

Unless you really think they are Christians in disguise?

Interesting you chose a picture of Arabs all in their societal traditional dress. Again, the men in these societies (and reflected in their laws) have no argument with the notion that women are (and ought to be) subservient to men... The rhetorical gymnastics performed by some in western societies to 'account for' or deny this seems Quixotic in its apology, given that no Arab is asking them to apologise for them.

What many Middle Eastern Muslims are culturally shocked by, when they come to the west, is the degree to which Islamic culture is criticised regarding the issue of female subservience (with 'degree' meaning any criticism at all)... The reason? Because so many have never, in their Middle Eastern lives, heard anyone criticise their culture in this way... It just has not occurred to them that women are fully (either culturally or legally) equal to men in an Islamic context.

And to say that they choose their cultural dress (such that they can choose to wear what they like), in those societies, is just plain untrue.

not sure why everyone is now trying to change the topic from the women being forced to sit on the floor while the men take the chairs, to their dress.

Yes, we all know they wear stupid clothes. Now, can we get back to the problem with Muslim men not giving up chairs for the women .... oh wait, I just realised, your argument was all crap to start with and you can't continue it without looking like fools ..

ok, carry on, lets talk about the dresses. What colour dress do you wear?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #110 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:53am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:16am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:56am:

Are we talking about the Quran, or someone's screwed up take on a photo? This is about people jumping to conclusions based on nothing but baseless stereotypes, when they haven't got a damn clue as to the context of the photo. Not to mention the just plain idiotic rationales that are being applied here - ie FD's "argument" hinging on the belief that its easier to write on a notepad sitting on a chair than it is writing on the floor - how exactly does that work FD? Or using a meme about women being forced on to the floor - while supplying a photo showing a woman seated with the men. Not to mention the blind assumption that no one actually had offered them a seat (how the hell could that be known?) Its just BS stereotypes as usual - and if you can't see that this is the core problem here, then you are missing the point.

A conclusion drawn (being - an example of womens' subservience)? Yes.

But I'm not sure why anyone here would feel the urge to argue the possibility of another reason, or remain agnostic on the matter.

As I said earlier, men in patriarchal societies are not ashamed of their womens' subservience. They don't ask for western apologists' [alternative] reinterpretation of these kind of images. They have never known any different.

North, no one's arguing that these societies aren't patriarchal - but lets not draw lazy conclusions from pictures we know nothing about - its intellectually dishonest. Your argument is tantamount to saying it simply doesn't matter if there's some misinterpretations here and there - since the overall theme still holds. Well it does matter. The truth matters, and calling people out on their porkies needs to be understood as vitally important in and of itself - even if its in relation to the "bad guys". If your concern is not detracting from these sorts of general "themes" - like women oppression in Islamic societies, then know that this sort of intellectual dishonesty only does those causes harm. You know, boy crying wolf sort of thing. If this were an isolated case then it wouldn't be an issue - but its not. You need to understand that the anti-Islam campaign is utterly dependent on lies, we see it literally on a daily basis here. So you need to acknowledge that as one of the key problems to this debate, and not just dismiss them with a casual "oh they're basically right in principle anyway".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #111 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am

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Your claim with the other photo is that Islamic men won't give up their seats because they want their women to be submissive/sexist or some such crap

That was Wally the Muslim. He said he would do the same. Do you need me to justify what Wally said?

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if thats the case, can you explain the photo I put up with Islamic women in the seats whilst the men are standing?

I thought you didn't want to talk about this one any more. Tell me John, do you share Gandalf's inability to identify the most submissive position in that photo? Do you hold your alternative photo as an example of gender equality in Islam?

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Yes, but simultaneously he will deny it.

Gosh, fancy me having to deny saying things I didn't say. If my denials bother you so much, all you have to do is quote me saying these things I didn't say.

Quote:

The truth matters, and calling people out on their porkies needs to be understood as vitally important in and of itself - even if its in relation to the "bad guys".

Is that why you keep having to explain what I 'really' meant rather than simply quoting what I actually said? When you do finally get round to quoting me, you deliberately misquote.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #112 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:01am freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am: Gosh, fancy me having to deny saying things I didn't say. Of course FD - like I said, you'll deny having ever said or implied there is any dismissiveness going on - while simultaneously mocking anyone who suggests there isn't.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #113 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:03am

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am:

When you do finally get round to quoting me, you deliberately misquote.

But of course FD - you never said or implied anything about submissiveness in this thread. Naturally you never meant at all to imply that the girls on the floor are being at all submissive. In fact you literally haven't said anything at all - right? Well since you continually refuse to explain what you did actually say, I guess thats probably not too far from the truth.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #114 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:15am Are you denying that you recently used quotes to deliberately misrepresent an exchange I had?
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John Smith

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #115 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:19am

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am:

Do you need me to justify what Wally said?

No, I need you to justify what you are saying

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am:

I thought you didn't want to talk about this one any more.

you can add that to your list of 'things I got wrong'

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am:

Tell me John, do you share Gandalf's inability to identify the most submissive position in that photo?

I believe I covered this in one of my earlier posts on this thread.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74677 Gender:	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #116 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:20am freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am: Do you hold your alternative photo as an example of gender equality in Islam? Who ever said there was gender equality in Islam?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #117 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:29am

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:15am:

Are you denying that you recently used quotes to deliberately misrepresent an exchange I had?

Yeah I guess I am - where did I misrepresent what you said? Is it "misrepresenting" to say you think there is some submissiveness going on with the girls on the floor?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #118 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:31am

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:20am:

freediver wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 7:54am:

Do you hold your alternative photo as an example of gender equality in Islam?

Who ever said there was gender equality in Islam?

Now now John - we won't have anyone accusing FD of misrepresenting what you said - he accuses us of misrepresenting, thats how this works.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #119 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 8:47am

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No, I need you to justify what you are saying

Perhaps you should quote me then, rather than telling me what I 'really mean'.

Quote:

I believe I covered this in one of my earlier posts on this thread.

A yes or no will siffice John. Do you share Gandalf's inability to identify the most submissive position in that photo?

Quote:

Who ever said there was gender equality in Islam?

It's good that you realise this. How about sexism?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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