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The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand (Read 18966 times)
Soren
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #270 - Jan 31st, 2016 at 8:57pm  
Soren wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 9:38pm:
Aussie wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 9:15pm:
So, you expect them to abide by our Laws or our 'cultural standards," (whatever they are?)





You are the worse kind of unthinking prat possible, as far as this topic is concerned. You have simply no ****g idea of what you are talking about and you regard your ability to mouth off as an acceptable basis for uttering moronic things.







Let me explain, for you are far too thick to perceive it without help.

You say: "our 'cultural standards," (whatever they are?)"

Yet your username is -   er.....  Aussie.



Aussie??  What does that mean, "Aussie"??  What are you identifying with, mong, if you do not think that there are such things as Australian cultural standards?




Arsey, you haven't explained the the 'cultural standard' that made you choose Arsey as your pseudonym on these boards.


Go on, explain yourself. What do you mean by calling yourself 'Aussie', Arsey?
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Aussie
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #271 - Jan 31st, 2016 at 9:09pm  
Well.....maybe................just maybe I am an Aussie.  What part of that is too hard for you to grasp?
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Karnal
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #272 - Jan 31st, 2016 at 10:00pm  
Soren wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 8:49pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 6:00pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 3:43pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 3:27pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 11:58am:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 11:14am:
John Smith wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 10:18pm:
you might have a point, except that we've been over there telling them how to live in some way shape or form for the last 100 years ... now you complain when they come here and repay the favour?

What we have been telling them over there is not to kill and torture each other. 

But it seems too much to ask, it is seen as interfering with their cultural and religious norms.




That’s right, old boy. You’ve already ruled the CIA training of the Shah’s SAVAK death squad out of order. Presumaby, you’d apply the same principles to Mubarak’s CIA-run torture cells, or the US military training of Saddam’s Republican Guards, or the current military training of the Saudi Army.

Always absolutely never ever, no?


Funny how the CIA is always to blame for the horrors that Muslims inflict on each other as well as on the infidels.


You think it's funny that the US is to blame for training all these regimes? 

No, PB. What is funny is that Muslims blame the CIA and the infidels when they, the Muslims, behave badly but they credit Islam when they are playing nicely.

That's what's funny.   And that they - and their boosters like you - think that nobody notices the massive contradiction in their self-pitying, self-excusing dishonesty.

They will do anything as long as they do not have to take responsibility for their actions. The moment they took responsibility they would thereby endorse Trump's call to stop all Muslim immigration to the West until we can all figure out what the bloody hell is going on with Muslims.



You've just unloaded a load of bile, old boy. It doesn't actually mean anything.

Feel free to address Uncle's active support for "Muslims behaving badly". As we've seen, those "Muslims" are either trained friends of Uncle, or those fighting against them. You don't deny this. You can't.

Who takes responsibility for Uncle's actions, dear boy?

On that point, I'm most curious.



Give them self-determination and democracy - they will massacre each other.  Give them a tribal strong man with the iron heel - they behave. What's in America's and the West's interest? Muslims to openly murder each other across the globe or be kept in check by bastards who will keep the lid on them?

If they cannot be trusted with freedom, oppress the bastards.  Remember - they are NOT like us.  Very important point, don't forget it.



What do you think, FD? is this what you mean by freedom?
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freediver
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #273 - Jan 31st, 2016 at 10:10pm  
It sounds a lot like what you were saying about Saddam and the US.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Karnal
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #274 - Feb 1st, 2016 at 9:04am  
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 10:10pm:
It sounds a lot like what you were saying about Saddam and the US.


Is it what you mean by bringing them democracy?

Oppress the bastards?
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Soren
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #275 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 9:58pm  
Aussie wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 9:09pm:
Well.....maybe................just maybe I am an Aussie.  What part of that is too hard for you to grasp?

What makes you an 'Aussie' if you don't even know what the cultural markers of an Aussie are?

Aussie wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 9:15pm:
So, you expect them to abide by our Laws or our 'cultural standards," (whatever they are?)





Or are you one of those totally confused narcissists who insist on being whatever they choose to be?







I think it's a bit of narcissism and a great deal of ignorant stupidity, mouthing off about things you do not even begin to grasp - like cultural standards. You are just a bleating bundle of confused contradictions because you cannot ever be fagged to think before you bleat.
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« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:09pm by Soren »  
 
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Soren
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #276 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:03pm  
Karnal wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 10:00pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 8:49pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 6:00pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 3:43pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 3:27pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 11:58am:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 11:14am:
John Smith wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 10:18pm:
you might have a point, except that we've been over there telling them how to live in some way shape or form for the last 100 years ... now you complain when they come here and repay the favour?

What we have been telling them over there is not to kill and torture each other. 

But it seems too much to ask, it is seen as interfering with their cultural and religious norms.




That’s right, old boy. You’ve already ruled the CIA training of the Shah’s SAVAK death squad out of order. Presumaby, you’d apply the same principles to Mubarak’s CIA-run torture cells, or the US military training of Saddam’s Republican Guards, or the current military training of the Saudi Army.

Always absolutely never ever, no?


Funny how the CIA is always to blame for the horrors that Muslims inflict on each other as well as on the infidels.


You think it's funny that the US is to blame for training all these regimes? 

No, PB. What is funny is that Muslims blame the CIA and the infidels when they, the Muslims, behave badly but they credit Islam when they are playing nicely.

That's what's funny.   And that they - and their boosters like you - think that nobody notices the massive contradiction in their self-pitying, self-excusing dishonesty.

They will do anything as long as they do not have to take responsibility for their actions. The moment they took responsibility they would thereby endorse Trump's call to stop all Muslim immigration to the West until we can all figure out what the bloody hell is going on with Muslims.



You've just unloaded a load of bile, old boy. It doesn't actually mean anything.

Feel free to address Uncle's active support for "Muslims behaving badly". As we've seen, those "Muslims" are either trained friends of Uncle, or those fighting against them. You don't deny this. You can't.

Who takes responsibility for Uncle's actions, dear boy?

On that point, I'm most curious.



Give them self-determination and democracy - they will massacre each other.  Give them a tribal strong man with the iron heel - they behave. What's in America's and the West's interest? Muslims to openly murder each other across the globe or be kept in check by bastards who will keep the lid on them?

If they cannot be trusted with freedom, oppress the bastards.  Remember - they are NOT like us.  Very important point, don't forget it.



What do you think, FD? is this what you mean by freedom?





There is a hierarchy of values and therefore individuals and societies. Freedom demands it. We cannot and are not equally free.  We have the opportunity from the outset but personal, cultural, societal actions and choices (ie freedoms) intrude immediately. Everyone, starting with the ancient Greeks, have recognised this.

Are you going to tell us it's not so, PB?
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Karnal
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #277 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:23pm  
Soren wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:03pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 10:00pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 8:49pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 6:37pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 6:00pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 3:43pm:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 3:27pm:
Karnal wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 11:58am:
Soren wrote on Jan 30th, 2016 at 11:14am:
John Smith wrote on Jan 29th, 2016 at 10:18pm:
you might have a point, except that we've been over there telling them how to live in some way shape or form for the last 100 years ... now you complain when they come here and repay the favour?

What we have been telling them over there is not to kill and torture each other. 

But it seems too much to ask, it is seen as interfering with their cultural and religious norms.




That’s right, old boy. You’ve already ruled the CIA training of the Shah’s SAVAK death squad out of order. Presumaby, you’d apply the same principles to Mubarak’s CIA-run torture cells, or the US military training of Saddam’s Republican Guards, or the current military training of the Saudi Army.

Always absolutely never ever, no?


Funny how the CIA is always to blame for the horrors that Muslims inflict on each other as well as on the infidels.


You think it's funny that the US is to blame for training all these regimes? 

No, PB. What is funny is that Muslims blame the CIA and the infidels when they, the Muslims, behave badly but they credit Islam when they are playing nicely.

That's what's funny.   And that they - and their boosters like you - think that nobody notices the massive contradiction in their self-pitying, self-excusing dishonesty.

They will do anything as long as they do not have to take responsibility for their actions. The moment they took responsibility they would thereby endorse Trump's call to stop all Muslim immigration to the West until we can all figure out what the bloody hell is going on with Muslims.



You've just unloaded a load of bile, old boy. It doesn't actually mean anything.

Feel free to address Uncle's active support for "Muslims behaving badly". As we've seen, those "Muslims" are either trained friends of Uncle, or those fighting against them. You don't deny this. You can't.

Who takes responsibility for Uncle's actions, dear boy?

On that point, I'm most curious.



Give them self-determination and democracy - they will massacre each other.  Give them a tribal strong man with the iron heel - they behave. What's in America's and the West's interest? Muslims to openly murder each other across the globe or be kept in check by bastards who will keep the lid on them?

If they cannot be trusted with freedom, oppress the bastards.  Remember - they are NOT like us.  Very important point, don't forget it.



What do you think, FD? is this what you mean by freedom?





There is a hierarchy of values and therefore individuals and societies. Freedom demands it. We cannot and are not equally free.  We have the opportunity from the outset but personal, cultural, societal actions and choices (ie freedoms) intrude immediately. Everyone, starting with the ancient Greeks, have recognised this.

Are you going to tell us it's not so, PB?



No, old boy, you are.

Oppress the bastards.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #278 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 10:21am  
Soren wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:03pm:
There is a hierarchy of values and therefore individuals and societies. Freedom demands it. We cannot and are not equally free.  We have the opportunity from the outset but personal, cultural, societal actions and choices (ie freedoms) intrude immediately. Everyone, starting with the ancient Greeks, have recognised this.


....

Soren wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 8:49pm:
Give them self-determination and democracy - they will massacre each other.  Give them a tribal strong man with the iron heel - they behave. What's in America's and the West's interest? Muslims to openly murder each other across the globe or be kept in check by bastards who will keep the lid on them?

If they cannot be trusted with freedom, oppress the bastards.


Sage words Soren - ones that the US has been taking to heart for decades now.

Iranians set up a parliamentary democracy and what do they do? Nationalise their oil. "Cannot be trusted with freedom - oppress the bastards" - said the US and UK as they dismantled the democracy and installed the undemocratic Shah. Sukarno starts setting up democratic institutions in Indonesia - looks a bit too much like socialism - "Cannot be trusted with freedom - oppress the bastards" said the US as they gave full backing to Suharto and his genocidal dictatorship. Egyptians establish a democracy which is promptly dismantled along with thousands slaughtered and 10s of thousands imprisoned by a brutal dictator - "cannot be trusted, oppress the bastards" said the US as they immediately reestablished relations with the dictator along with a generous aid package (violating US law that prohibits US tax money being given to regimes who overthrew elected governments).

As you said, there is a "hierarchy of values" - we cannot possibly let "the bastards" have freedom if ever we deem it is not in our economic interests. As you say - everyone has recognised this since the Ancient Greeks - speaking of which, I recommend perusing over Thucydides' account of the Melian dialogue which perfectly articulates this "hierarchy of values" that you speak of -  namely how preposterous is the idea that the strong do not have the right to dominate over the weak, and that the weak have any right to equal freedom.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #279 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 3:15pm  
Soren wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:03pm:
There is a hierarchy of values and therefore individuals and societies.


Indeed there is, old boy. There is also a hierarchy of literacy skills, general knowledge, social and political awareness, self awareness, and yes, niceness too. All the foreigners on this board who come to Australia to bleat on about banning, killing and oppressing the Muselman come across as quite angry and mean.

In fact, they profess to value anger and meanness. They say you're a traitor if you're not angry and mean.

And yes, here on this board we also have a gen-u-wine Muselman. He's jolly and nice. He's so nice, you keep telling him he should try to blow people up, but he won't have a bar of it. FD tells him he should try to behead gays for doing it Mardi Gras style, but the Muselman doesn't agree.

You want to ban him, kill him and oppress him, despite the fact that he's far more intelligent than you, a better communicator than you, and yes, much nicer. If we have a hierarchy of values, G's values are superior to yours. If there is a hierarchy of individuals, G is a superior individual to you. If G's values influenced a society, this society would be far superior to the hostile, paranoid, angry and mean little tribe your values would inform.

Your own values go against almost every Western value our society professes to be founded upon: fairness, justice, equality of opportunity, freedom of belief, the rule of law. As far as I've seen, G has stood up for these values time and time again. More importantly, he has demonstrated these values in his communication with others.

I wouldn't crow about a hierarchy of values, dear boy. Your values of hostility and meanness are totally at odds with our society's values, a society you came to join. Your values are inferior in every way to G's demonstrated values, and he's a Muselman.

Of course you want to ban him. His very existence highlights your inferiority.

Let's oppress him instead, eh?
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #280 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 9:20pm  
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 10:21am:
Soren wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:03pm:
There is a hierarchy of values and therefore individuals and societies. Freedom demands it. We cannot and are not equally free.  We have the opportunity from the outset but personal, cultural, societal actions and choices (ie freedoms) intrude immediately. Everyone, starting with the ancient Greeks, have recognised this.


....

Soren wrote on Jan 31st, 2016 at 8:49pm:
Give them self-determination and democracy - they will massacre each other.  Give them a tribal strong man with the iron heel - they behave. What's in America's and the West's interest? Muslims to openly murder each other across the globe or be kept in check by bastards who will keep the lid on them?

If they cannot be trusted with freedom, oppress the bastards.


Sage words Soren - ones that the US has been taking to heart for decades now.

Iranians set up a parliamentary democracy and what do they do? Nationalise their oil. "Cannot be trusted with freedom - oppress the bastards" - said the US and UK as they dismantled the democracy and installed the undemocratic Shah.



Was the Iranian oil industry developed by the Iranians - or was it done by US and UK capital? The latter. Did the Iranian parliamentary democrats propose a fair compensation for that investment?  No. So 'cannot be trusted with freedom' is correct.  The same goes for your other examples. Egyptian democracy - are you referring to Nasser or the Muslim Brotherhood?

Sorry to use that perennial example that seems to be analogous to hot-for-sharia Muslim democracies - Hitler was elected democratically.  In hindsight, it would have been better to overthrow him in 1934 by a putsch orchestrated by some Anglo-American proto-CIA outfit.


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Karnal
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #281 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 9:33pm  
Did Australia offer to.compensate foreign mining companies for the mining tax? No.

Invade us, kill us, oppress the bastards.

Good show, old boy, you’ve done it again.
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Soren
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #282 - Feb 4th, 2016 at 6:38am  
Karnal wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 9:33pm:
Did Australia offer to.compensate foreign mining companies for the mining tax? No.

Invade us, kill us, oppress the bastards.

Good show, old boy, you’ve done it again.



They must teach this line of nonsense to you and Gandy et al in PB school, great Keynesian numpty.  Do you really think you can pretend that there is no difference between a tax and the complete nationalisation of an industry??  Really?

You can write lengthy puff peaces about Keynesian fallacies and Bretton Woods and whatnot but you lack basic honesty, PB.



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Karnal
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #283 - Feb 4th, 2016 at 8:46am  
Soren wrote on Feb 4th, 2016 at 6:38am:
Karnal wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 9:33pm:
Did Australia offer to.compensate foreign mining companies for the mining tax? No.

Invade us, kill us, oppress the bastards.

Good show, old boy, you’ve done it again.



They must teach this line of nonsense to you and Gandy et al in PB school, great Keynesian numpty.  Do you really think you can pretend that there is no difference between a tax and the complete nationalisation of an industry??  Really?

You can write lengthy puff peaces about Keynesian fallacies and Bretton Woods and whatnot but you lack basic honesty, PB.





I’d ask about the old boy school, old boy, but there isn’t one. What sort of school would teach values like democratic governments being deposed to protect the interests of foreign oil companies?

"Values", innit. "Culture".

Oppress the bastards.
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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #284 - Feb 4th, 2016 at 11:53am  
Soren wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 9:20pm:
Was the Iranian oil industry developed by the Iranians - or was it done by US and UK capital? The latter. Did the Iranian parliamentary democrats propose a fair compensation for that investment?  No. So 'cannot be trusted with freedom' is correct.


Your "argument" wouldn't pass the laugh test in anything even remotely resembling a serious discussion on the topic. The idea that a foreigner has any sort of right to violently overthrow an elected government of a sovereign nation over their greed for that nation's rightful sovereign resources - shouldn't even be dignified with a response.

Nonetheless, you even got this absurd argument wrong - Mosaddegh was only too willing to negotiate a compensation deal for Britain:

Quote:
Mohammad Mosaddegh attempted to negotiate with the AIOC, but the company rejected his proposed compromise. Mosaddegh's plan, based on the 1948 compromise between the Venezuelan Government of Romulo Gallegos and Creole Petroleum,[49] would divide the profits from oil 50/50 between Iran and Britain. Against the recommendation of the United States, Britain refused this proposal and began planning to undermine and overthrow the Iranian government

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#Oil_nationalizatio...

Iran appealed for negotiations until the very end, but it was Britain who was set on only one path from the very beginning: overthrow. Even Uncle thought Britain was being unreasonable - fancy that eh
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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