Australian Politics Forum - The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand

freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #300 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 4:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 1:12pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 11:51am:

Why didn't the Iranians prospect for oil if they were so jealous of their sovereign national wealth??

Just a stab, but I'm guessing Mossadegh and his elected government wasn't around in 1908.

Is your argument that whenever a nation renege's on a contract with a foreign company, the nation of that company has a right to violently overthrow the government of that nation? Does it make any difference if the reneging nation offers compensatory measures - say like offering 50% of the profits?

Ah. So 50% of the profits is compensation for the loss of the previously agreed 84%?

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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #301 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 4:22pm

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 4:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 1:12pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 11:51am:

Why didn't the Iranians prospect for oil if they were so jealous of their sovereign national wealth??

Just a stab, but I'm guessing Mossadegh and his elected government wasn't around in 1908.

Is your argument that whenever a nation renege's on a contract with a foreign company, the nation of that company has a right to violently overthrow the government of that nation? Does it make any difference if the reneging nation offers compensatory measures - say like offering 50% of the profits?

Ah. So 50% of the profits is compensation for the loss of the previously agreed 84%?

I say, FD, do you agree with the old boy that Uncle should fund coups against democratically erected governments and install dictatorships?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

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Soren

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #302 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 6:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 1:12pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 11:51am:

Why didn't the Iranians prospect for oil if they were so jealous of their sovereign national wealth??

Just a stab, but I'm guessing Mossadegh and his elected government wasn't around in 1908.

Is your argument that whenever a nation renege's on a contract with a foreign company, the nation of that company has a right to violently overthrow the government of that nation? Does it make any difference if the reneging nation offers compensatory measures - say like offering 50% of the profits?

So if you were an investor in that venture you'd be happy to lose 40% of your your contracted revenue because your contracting partner, who did nothing, discovered that he had made a bad bargain?

You would be happy to have your super, say, suddenly taxed at 40% rather than 16%, after all the years you have been putting money into it???

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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #303 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 6:20pm

Soren wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 6:13pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 1:12pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 11:51am:

Why didn't the Iranians prospect for oil if they were so jealous of their sovereign national wealth??

Just a stab, but I'm guessing Mossadegh and his elected government wasn't around in 1908.

Is your argument that whenever a nation renege's on a contract with a foreign company, the nation of that company has a right to violently overthrow the government of that nation? Does it make any difference if the reneging nation offers compensatory measures - say like offering 50% of the profits?

So if you were an investor in that venture you'd be happy to lose 40% of your your contracted revenue because your contracting partner, who did nothing, discovered that he had made a bad bargain?

You would be happy to have your super, say, suddenly taxed at 40% rather than 16%, after all the years you have been putting money into it???

Exactly. Imagine how all those slave traders felt, dear chap. Or Hong Kong opium traders. Luckily, Mother always evens out the score.

Colonialism ended far too early, no? Particularly in Persia, where all those the oil companies did their deals with the British Colonial Office.

Level playing field, innit.

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« Last Edit: Feb 6^th, 2016 at 6:41pm by Karnal »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #304 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 7:29pm

freediver wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 4:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 1:12pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 6^th, 2016 at 11:51am:

Why didn't the Iranians prospect for oil if they were so jealous of their sovereign national wealth??

Just a stab, but I'm guessing Mossadegh and his elected government wasn't around in 1908.

Is your argument that whenever a nation renege's on a contract with a foreign company, the nation of that company has a right to violently overthrow the government of that nation? Does it make any difference if the reneging nation offers compensatory measures - say like offering 50% of the profits?

Ah. So 50% of the profits is compensation for the loss of the previously agreed 84%?

Don't be shy FD - feel free to offer your opinion - did that justify a violent overthrow of a parliamentary democracy to install a brutal dictator?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #305 - Feb 6^th, 2016 at 9:35pm This is the first I have heard of the previous profit sharing agreement Gandalf. Would you believe that in all the rants I have read from you and Karnal about this lately, neither of you ever mentioned it?
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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #306 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 8:51am

No no, FD, G wasn’t asking about profit sharing, he was asking about Uncle replacing democracies with dictatorships.

How could you have never heard of the Shah’s rise to power? It was in the name of Freeeeedom.

I’m not sure if they had erections - you know, like Saddam. Perhaps you would like to put down a few words to say how Uncle brought them democracy.The old boy’s saying they deserved tyranny for going back on Mother’s word.

What do you think?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #307 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 8:58am I'm happy to hold my opinion until I hear the rest of the details. After seeing you and Gandalf's efforts to accurately describe what happened in Iraq, you will understand my reluctance to trust anything you say on Iran.
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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #308 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:03am

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 8:58am:

I'm happy to hold my opinion until I hear the rest of the details. After seeing you and Gandalf's efforts to accurately describe what happened in Iraq, you will understand my reluctance to trust anything you say on Iran.

Hold your opinion? The Shah’s coup is common knowledge. How could you have never heard of this?

Chile, Indonesia, Iran, Guatemala. You’ve never heard?

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freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #309 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #310 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:43am

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Well, you’re free to do some research and come back with an argument.

There’s always that.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49081 At my desk.	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #311 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:45am Thanks for the offer Karnal.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #312 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #313 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

The principle is that you do not simply disregard a previous agreement. You re-negotiate it. It was entirely right for Britain and the West generally, to boycott Iran when it nationalised the oil industry.

And to characterise Iran as a parliamentary democracy is laughable. North Korea also has a parliament and it even calls itself a Democratic republic but that doesn't make it a parliamentary democracy.

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freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #314 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:11pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

Not on the back of a single oil contract. I suspect there is a communism angle to this one also.

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