Australian Politics Forum - The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand

Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #315 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:27pm

Soren wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

The principle is that you do not simply disregard a previous agreement. You re-negotiate it.

So why did the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company refuse to negotiate with the newly elected government? This is what the conflict was all about - the AIOC (now BP) refused to deal with a democratically elected sovereign government, after numerous requests to sit down and do business. Instead, they lobbied Uncle and Mother to throw democracy out.

Values, eh? Superior culture. Principle.

Good show, old boy.

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Soren

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #316 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:52pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

The principle is that you do not simply disregard a previous agreement. You re-negotiate it.

So why did the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company refuse to negotiate with the newly elected government? This is what the conflict was all about - the AIOC (now BP) refused to deal with a democratically elected sovereign government, after numerous requests to sit down and do business. Instead, they lobbied Uncle and Mother to throw democracy out.

Values, eh? Superior culture. Principle.

Good show, old boy.

It was a contract for 60 years, signed in 1934.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49222 At my desk.	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #317 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:54pm It was a contract signed with Muslims. They should have known it would be up for renegotiation as soon as they had invested all that money in the infrastructure. Right Gandalf?
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Soren

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #318 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 3:02pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

The principle is that you do not simply disregard a previous agreement. You re-negotiate it.

So why did the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company refuse to negotiate with the newly elected government? This is what the conflict was all about - the AIOC (now BP) refused to deal with a democratically elected sovereign government, after numerous requests to sit down and do business. Instead, they lobbied Uncle and Mother to throw democracy out.

Values, eh? Superior culture. Principle.

Good show, old boy.

And after the nationalising government was booted out, 50-50 profit sharing was agreed.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #319 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 3:43pm

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

Not on the back of a single oil contract. I suspect there is a communism angle to this one also.

So do you see anything particularly objectionable to Soren's "oppress the bastards" philosophy here thats worth mentioning? Or are you going to continue to invent hypothetical scenarios on historical events you know nothing about in a desparate attempt to find a 'sinister muslim' angle?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #320 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 3:44pm

Soren wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:52pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:27pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 1:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

The principle is that you do not simply disregard a previous agreement. You re-negotiate it.

So why did the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company refuse to negotiate with the newly elected government? This is what the conflict was all about - the AIOC (now BP) refused to deal with a democratically elected sovereign government, after numerous requests to sit down and do business. Instead, they lobbied Uncle and Mother to throw democracy out.

Values, eh? Superior culture. Principle.

Good show, old boy.

It was a contract for 60 years, signed in 1934.

I say, old boy, are you saying that a contract signed by a previous unconstitutional government with a foreign oil company takes precedence over the social contract an elected leader has with his electorate?

Iranians overwhealmingly supported the contract being renegotiated. That oil sits on Iranian land. You usually argue that the tinted races are too backward and stoopid to improve their lot, but here you’re saying they should submit to Mother’s friends and be good about it. I.e, they should continue colonialism, which is effectively what happened when the Shah was put in.

Do you know what you are, old boy?

You’re a.democrat. Colonialism ended far too early, no?

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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #321 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 3:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 3:43pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 2:11pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 12:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 9:32am:

I hear about it all the time. Just no details. For example, this is the first time I have ever heard that Iran had a prior agreement.

My opinion is it looks very bad, and is more plausible than what you and Gandalf have been saying about Iraq, but I also expect it to not be quite what you and Gandalf have made out.

Prior agreement or not - I'm asking about the principle. Assume Iran flagrantly violated the agreement if you like, all I'm asking is does that justify violently overthrowing a parlimentary democracy and replacing it with a brutal dictator? Soren thinks it does.

Not on the back of a single oil contract. I suspect there is a communism angle to this one also.

So do you see anything particularly objectionable to Soren's "oppress the bastards" philosophy here thats worth mentioning? Or are you going to continue to invent hypothetical scenarios on historical events you know nothing about in a desparate attempt to find a 'sinister muslim' angle?

Decisions decisions. I think we’ll go with the latter, don’t you?

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freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #322 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 3:43pm:

Or are you going to continue to invent hypothetical scenarios on historical events you know nothing about

Is this a reference to your theory that the US fought tooth and nail against democracy in Iraq? Or that is is necessary and common to hold open elections to elect people to the position of candidate for an election?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #323 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:36pm

freediver wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:23pm:

Is this a reference to your theory that the US fought tooth and nail against democracy in Iraq? Or that is is necessary and common to hold open elections to elect people to the position of candidate for an election?

No, actually its a reference to this thread and your "muslims must have done something awfully sinister for the British to overthrow their democratic government" musings.

Do you think there's anything particularly objectionable about Soren's "oppress the bastards" arguments here? Have you been following it?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #324 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:38pm

Quote:

No, actually its a reference to this thread and your "muslims must have done something awfully sinister for the British to overthrow their democratic government" musings.

Ah. So it's not lying about what I say when you use quote marks instead of a quote box? Are you inventing a hypothetical scenario?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #325 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:53pm lol of course I am FD - you're definitely not desperately scrounging for a way to apologise for the British overthrow of a parliamentary democracy are you? Wherever did I get such a crazy idea? Do you find anything objectionable to Soren's "oppress the bastards" arguments? Have you noticed it?
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 105961 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #326 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:07pm Isn't this thread getting off track? A boy cut off his hand because of some stupid old book. It shows how dangerous Islamic brainwashing really is.
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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #327 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:30pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 4:53pm:

lol of course I am FD - you're definitely not desperately scrounging for a way to apologise for the British overthrow of a parliamentary democracy are you? Wherever did I get such a crazy idea? Grin

Do you find anything objectionable to Soren's "oppress the bastards" arguments? Have you noticed it?

Of course not. This is Freeeeeedom.

Whether it’s the invasion of Iraq or a funded coup in Iran, or Chile, or Guatemala, or on and on and on, FD stands up for it all, even though - as he just confessed - he knows nothing about it

Still, it’s all Freeeedom. And that’s a good thing, right?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #328 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:35pm oops nearly forgot to add... you're definitely not desperately scrounging for a way to apologise for the British overthrow of a muslim* parliamentary democracy are you?* Not FD thats for sure
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Karnal

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #329 - Feb 7^th, 2016 at 6:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7^th, 2016 at 5:35pm:

oops nearly forgot to add...

you're definitely not desperately scrounging for a way to apologise for the British overthrow of a muslim parliamentary democracy are you?

Not FD thats for sure Grin

Well yes, but not just Mother. The CIA went in, paid the assassins, and when.the Shah was in power, armed his secret police and trained them in the art of torture and interrogation.

I wonder if FD’s done this training. Are you the standard bearer for wishy washy Western morals? Are you trying to take away the freedoms of decent white people everywhere? Do you call for the execution of gays who do it Mardi Gras style?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

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