Australian Politics Forum - The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38766 Gender:	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #75 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:31pm You asked: Quote: Should we judge people on what they believe? No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.
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ian

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #76 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:49pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

You asked:

Quote:

Should we judge people on what they believe?

No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

All these actions are based on peoples beliefs, peoples beliefs give us an indicator as to their future behaviour.

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Aussie

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #77 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:04pm

ian wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:49pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

You asked:

Quote:

Should we judge people on what they believe?

No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

All these actions are based on peoples beliefs, peoples beliefs give us an indicator as to their future behaviour.

So.....I am a 'nothing.' What does that indicate I will do? I am a Christian. What does that indicate I will do. I am a Hindu. What does that indicate I will do. I am an Eskimo. What does that indicate I will do. Etc etc etc.

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freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #78 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

You asked:

Quote:

Should we judge people on what they believe?

No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

Suppose a person is a Nazi and promotes the idea that we should start gassing Jews again. But other than that obeys the law, helps little old ladies across the street, eats cornflakes for breakfast etc.

Are you saying we should not judge that person on their beliefs?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Aussie

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #79 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:20pm

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:13pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

You asked:

Quote:

Should we judge people on what they believe?

No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

Suppose a person is a Nazi and promotes the idea that we should start gassing Jews again. But other than that obeys the law, helps little old ladies across the street, eats cornflakes for breakfast etc.

Are you saying we should not judge that person on their beliefs?

Yet another question from FD. However, I'll give you the respect I give everyone...which is to answer a question.

Quote:

and promotes the idea that we should start gassing Jews again.

That would be conduct I'd disassociate myself from. I'd also stop sending him Christmas cards. Did that answer really surprise you FD?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49075 At my desk.	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #80 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:32pm No it does not surprise me. I have been waiting for common sense to kick in. Are you now saying you would judge a person based on their beliefs?
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Aussie

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #81 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:41pm

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:32pm:

No it does not surprise me. I have been waiting for common sense to kick in. Are you now saying you would judge a person based on their beliefs?

Do you just ask questions, and ignore the answers?

I'm pretty certain I have already posted this:

Quote:

No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49075 At my desk.	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #82 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:49pm But the guy in my example is not gassing any Jews. Suppose he is extremely polite in the way he promotes the gassing of Jews. Should he be judged on his beliefs alone?
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Aussie

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #83 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:57pm

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:49pm:

But the guy in my example is not gassing any Jews. Suppose he is extremely polite in the way he promotes the gassing of Jews. Should he be judged on his beliefs alone?

No. We ought judge him on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95896 Gender:	Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand Reply #84 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:10pm Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:31pm: You asked: Quote: Should we judge people on what they believe? No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals. Nonsense. We should judge them on what they don’t say. Google: taqiyya.
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ian

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #85 - Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:21pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:04pm:

ian wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:49pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

You asked:

Quote:

Should we judge people on what they believe?

No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

All these actions are based on peoples beliefs, peoples beliefs give us an indicator as to their future behaviour.

So.....I am a 'nothing.' What does that indicate I will do? I am a Christian. What does that indicate I will do. I am a Hindu. What does that indicate I will do. I am an Eskimo. What does that indicate I will do. Etc etc etc.

if you knew someone who promoted a belief in child adult sex would you allow them to babysit your kids? of course not. because their belief system has given you an indication as to their expected behaviour.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #86 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:56am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 7:00am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 12:30am:

lol you guys really are pathetic - if it was a picture of a group of men on chairs and another group of men on the floor with the women standing up the back it would be every bit as incriminating in your view.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain the woman sitting in the front row.

You're stretching it a bit Gandalf.

Even if you might argue that 'The Koran does not define women as subservient', can you honestly argue that women are not required to assume a submissive and subservient role in 'Islamic' societies in practice?

I expect that crap from the resident trolls here, not from someone like you.

Are we talking about the Quran, or someone's screwed up take on a photo? This is about people jumping to conclusions based on nothing but baseless stereotypes, when they haven't got a damn clue as to the context of the photo. Not to mention the just plain idiotic rationales that are being applied here - ie FD's "argument" hinging on the belief that its easier to write on a notepad sitting on a chair than it is writing on the floor - how exactly does that work FD? Or using a meme about women being forced on to the floor - while supplying a photo showing a woman seated with the men. Not to mention the blind assumption that no one actually had offered them a seat (how the hell could that be known?) Its just BS stereotypes as usual - and if you can't see that this is the core problem here, then you are missing the point.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #87 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 6:59am

Karnal wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 11:10pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 9:31pm:

You asked:

Quote:

Should we judge people on what they believe?

No. We ought judge them on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

Nonsense. We should judge them on what they don’t say.

Ironically, it is the religious who would argue that (in principle) that people can be judged on what they think... In principle. After all, many religions posit the notion of an afterlife which, if anything, is essentially the existence of disembodied thought after death. If this thought cannot be held 'accountable' for itself, what then would be the nature of this existence?

Isn't that the reason the boy cut his hand off in the first place?

It is the Jimmy Carter "I have committed adultery of the heart" kind of accountability.

Certainly Christianity entertains the notion of the 'sins of the mind', at least in that the seven cardinal sins can be committed in the mind alone. I'd be truly surprised if Islam does not also entertain the same notion.

But what are they thinking?

As the writers of 'The Iron Lady' put into the mouth of Meryl Streep as she channeled Margaret Thatcher... 'Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions.[&etc]'

Again, ironically, secularists would more likely be the ones to repudiate the notion (even in principle) of the 'crime of the mind'.

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« Last Edit: Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:04am by NorthOfNorth »

Conviction is the art of being certain

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #88 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 7:16am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:56am:

Are we talking about the Quran, or someone's screwed up take on a photo? This is about people jumping to conclusions based on nothing but baseless stereotypes, when they haven't got a damn clue as to the context of the photo. Not to mention the just plain idiotic rationales that are being applied here - ie FD's "argument" hinging on the belief that its easier to write on a notepad sitting on a chair than it is writing on the floor - how exactly does that work FD? Or using a meme about women being forced on to the floor - while supplying a photo showing a woman seated with the men. Not to mention the blind assumption that no one actually had offered them a seat (how the hell could that be known?) Its just BS stereotypes as usual - and if you can't see that this is the core problem here, then you are missing the point.

A conclusion drawn (being - an example of womens' subservience)? Yes.

But I'm not sure why anyone here would feel the urge to argue the possibility of another reason, or remain agnostic on the matter.

As I said earlier, men in patriarchal societies are not ashamed of their womens' subservience. They don't ask for western apologists' [alternative] reinterpretation of these kind of images. They have never known any different.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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freediver

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Re: The boy accused of blasphemy who cut off his hand
Reply #89 - Jan 25^th, 2016 at 12:24pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 10:49pm:

But the guy in my example is not gassing any Jews. Suppose he is extremely polite in the way he promotes the gassing of Jews. Should he be judged on his beliefs alone?

No. We ought judge him on what they do, behave and conduct themselves as individuals.

So you have no problem at all with Nazis politely promoting the gassing of Jews?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 4:56am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 7:00am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 24^th, 2016 at 12:30am:

lol you guys really are pathetic - if it was a picture of a group of men on chairs and another group of men on the floor with the women standing up the back it would be every bit as incriminating in your view.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain the woman sitting in the front row.

You're stretching it a bit Gandalf.

Even if you might argue that 'The Koran does not define women as subservient', can you honestly argue that women are not required to assume a submissive and subservient role in 'Islamic' societies in practice?

I expect that crap from the resident trolls here, not from someone like you.

Are we talking about the Quran, or someone's screwed up take on a photo? This is about people jumping to conclusions based on nothing but baseless stereotypes, when they haven't got a damn clue as to the context of the photo. Not to mention the just plain idiotic rationales that are being applied here - ie FD's "argument" hinging on the belief that its easier to write on a notepad sitting on a chair than it is writing on the floor - how exactly does that work FD? Or using a meme about women being forced on to the floor - while supplying a photo showing a woman seated with the men. Not to mention the blind assumption that no one actually had offered them a seat (how the hell could that be known?) Its just BS stereotypes as usual - and if you can't see that this is the core problem here, then you are missing the point.

If common sense fails you Gandalf, you could always try asking a journalist why they prefer to stand and take notes rather than sit on the floor. Or you could try writing while sitting on the floor yourself. Let us know how it goes.

Quote:

Not to mention the blind assumption that no one actually had offered them a seat

Wally the Muslim has already indicated that he would not offer them a seat. He appears to think that is normal. Though to be fair, he has the sense to know when to slink off with his tail between his legs.

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« Last Edit: Jan 25^th, 2016 at 12:32pm by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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