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France closing mosques (Read 7519 times)
freediver
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France closing mosques
Feb 17th, 2016 at 7:48pm
 
Shocked

Not many recent updates on this.

Gandalf how does this fit in with your theory that mosque attendance prevents radicalisation?

France likely to close more than 100 mosques

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/france-100-mosques-close-151202142023319.html

France is likely to close up to 160 mosques in the coming months as part of a nationwide police operation under the state of emergency which allows places of worship that promote radical views to be shut down, one of the country's chief imams has said.

Following news that three mosques have already been closed since the November 13 attacks on the capital, Hassan El Alaoui, who is in charge of nominating regional and local Muslim imams and mediating between the imams and prison officials, told Al Jazeera on Wednesday that more were set to be shut.

"According to official figures and our discussions with the interior ministry, between 100 and 160 more mosques will be closed because they are run illegally without proper licenses, they preach hatred, or use takfiri speech," he said.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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GordyL
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #1 - Feb 17th, 2016 at 7:56pm
 
Read some sam harris and his ideas about concentric circles
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On the Ning Nang Nong
Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #2 - Feb 17th, 2016 at 8:00pm
 
GordyL wrote on Feb 17th, 2016 at 7:56pm:
Read some sam harris and his ideas about concentric circles


Can you summarise the idea?
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In the fullness of time...
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #3 - Feb 17th, 2016 at 8:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 17th, 2016 at 7:48pm:
Shocked

Not many recent updates on this.

Gandalf how does this fit in with your theory that mosque attendance prevents radicalisation?

France likely to close more than 100 mosques

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/france-100-mosques-close-151202142023319.html

France is likely to close up to 160 mosques in the coming months as part of a nationwide police operation under the state of emergency which allows places of worship that promote radical views to be shut down, one of the country's chief imams has said.

Following news that three mosques have already been closed since the November 13 attacks on the capital, Hassan El Alaoui, who is in charge of nominating regional and local Muslim imams and mediating between the imams and prison officials, told Al Jazeera on Wednesday that more were set to be shut.

"According to official figures and our discussions with the interior ministry, between 100 and 160 more mosques will be closed because they are run illegally without proper licenses, they preach hatred, or use takfiri speech," he said.


france should repossess all of those mosques and all of the assets every muslim who went there
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Karnal
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #4 - Feb 17th, 2016 at 9:18pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 17th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 17th, 2016 at 7:48pm:
Shocked

Not many recent updates on this.

Gandalf how does this fit in with your theory that mosque attendance prevents radicalisation?

France likely to close more than 100 mosques

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/france-100-mosques-close-151202142023319.html

France is likely to close up to 160 mosques in the coming months as part of a nationwide police operation under the state of emergency which allows places of worship that promote radical views to be shut down, one of the country's chief imams has said.

Following news that three mosques have already been closed since the November 13 attacks on the capital, Hassan El Alaoui, who is in charge of nominating regional and local Muslim imams and mediating between the imams and prison officials, told Al Jazeera on Wednesday that more were set to be shut.

"According to official figures and our discussions with the interior ministry, between 100 and 160 more mosques will be closed because they are run illegally without proper licenses, they preach hatred, or use takfiri speech," he said.


france should repossess all of those mosques and all of the assets every muslim who went there


Well, all property is theft, Sprint.

Do you concur with Sprint’s economic policy here, FD? How about his unique take on contract law?

I’m.curious.
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Yadda
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #5 - Feb 17th, 2016 at 10:10pm
 
Quote:

France likely to close more than 100 mosques


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/france-100-mosques-close-151202142023319.html




They should close EVERY mosque in France.

As should we too, in Australia.

But i am not holding my breath.             Sad




.




What the current president of Turkey declared, in earlier years.....

---------- >

Google;
Erdogan, The Mosques are our Barracks, the Domes our helmets, the Minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers




Quote:

May 23, 2007
Turkish PM Erdogan in Speech During Term As Istanbul Mayor Attacks Turkey's Constitution, Describing it As 'A Huge Lie':

'Sovereignty Belongs Unconditionally and Always To Allah';

'One Cannot Be a Muslim, and Secular'


http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD159607




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #6 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:24am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 17th, 2016 at 7:48pm:
Gandalf how does this fit in with your theory that mosque attendance prevents radicalisation?


hmmm is that what I said FD? Exactly?

I think it was more like mainstream mosque attendance, a rather important distinction. And don't take my word for it, this was from British intelligence when they investigated patterns of radicalisation in Britain.

Relevant:

freediver wrote on Feb 17th, 2016 at 7:48pm:
According to official figures and our discussions with the interior ministry, between 100 and 160 more mosques will be closed
because they are run illegally without proper licenses
, they preach hatred, or use takfiri speech," he sai


In case you missed it, I highlighted and made bigger the relevant part.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #7 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:30am
 
Thanks Gandalf, for diverting my attention away from the hate speech bit. I might have missed the bit about the paperwork not being in order. Those French love their paperwork, don't they? It's not about telling the truth, but about which truth to tell, right?

Do you think the causal link is one way? That is, violently inclined Muslims don't choose to go to the more radical mosques. Rather, they happen to go to a mosque that is more radical, which causes them to become terrorists?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #8 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:37am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:30am:
Thanks Gandalf, for diverting my attention away from the hate speech bit.


unofficial unlicensed illegal "mosques" preach hate speech, while mainstream official mosques don't - why on earth would you think I want to divert attention away from that FD?

You on the other hand seem very keen to divert attention from the most relevant part of this story - that these "mosques" are not official, mainstream - or even legal.

freediver wrote on Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:30am:
Do you think the causal link is one way? That is, violently inclined Muslims don't choose to go to the more radical mosques. Rather, they happen to go to a mosque that is more radical, which causes them to become terrorists?


Of course. If all terrorists were radicalised from the start they wouldn't need hate-preachers to radicalise them would they?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #9 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:42am
 
Quote:
unofficial unlicensed illegal "mosques" preach hate speech, while mainstream official mosques don't - why on earth would you think I want to divert attention away from that FD?


You have latched onto the "official" bit rather quickly Gandalf. I wasn't even aware you needed a licence. Is it the same in Australia?

Quote:
You on the other hand seem very keen to divert attention from the most relevant part of this story - that these "mosques" are not official, mainstream - or even legal.


Thanks Gandalf. Here I was thinking it was the hate speech that was the problem, when really it was just the paperwork.

Quote:
Of course. If all terrorists were radicalised from the start they wouldn't need hate-preachers to radicalise them would they?


So what does this mean the solution is? Do you think that detailed monitoring and control by the government of what goes on in mosques will eliminate Islamic radicalism, because there will be no other source of extremist ideas? How much control over the mindds of Muslims do you think mosques exert?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #10 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:59am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:42am:
You have latched onto the "official" bit rather quickly Gandalf. I wasn't even aware you needed a licence. Is it the same in Australia?


I would have thought the "illegal" bit would be a bit of a giveaway.

Ooh look what we have here - something else you left out FD - this was a muslim initiative:

Quote:
Muslim leaders in France have called for stringent new measures to help stem religious extremism in the country after the deadly terrorist attacks in Paris that left at least 130 people dead and hundreds more wounded. Representing about 2,500 mosques, the nation’s leading Muslim body has proposed licensing imams to preach and a new religious body to combat extremist propaganda, the Local reported.

"The time for action has come. The Muslims of France will play their part," said Anouar Kbibech, the president of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, according to the website.

The council said it would begin handing out permits after testing imams on adherence to French principles and theological knowledge. It would make religious leaders sign a charter that requires they “respect the laws of the republic.”


http://www.ibtimes.com/french-muslim-leaders-want-extremist-mosques-closed-islam...
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #11 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 10:02am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:42am:
So what does this mean the solution is? Do you think that detailed monitoring and control by the government of what goes on in mosques will eliminate Islamic radicalism


You mean when muslims themselves don't take the initiative and guide the government on how to clamp down on hate speech - like they did in this instance?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 10:22am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:37am:
............... "mosques" preach hate speech..............


yes, we know that Gandalf.
mosques over here do the same, that is why many of us want islam banned.
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freediver
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #13 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 10:30am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 18th, 2016 at 10:02am:
freediver wrote on Feb 18th, 2016 at 9:42am:
So what does this mean the solution is? Do you think that detailed monitoring and control by the government of what goes on in mosques will eliminate Islamic radicalism


You mean when muslims themselves don't take the initiative and guide the government on how to clamp down on hate speech - like they did in this instance?


I don't think they can actually ban mosques without the government, but you are probably right that it would require Muslims to be involved.

Do you think that detailed monitoring and control by the government of what goes on in mosques will eliminate Islamic radicalism?
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Re: France closing mosques
Reply #14 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 11:05am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 18th, 2016 at 10:30am:
Do you think that detailed monitoring and control by the government of what goes on in mosques will eliminate Islamic radicalism?


No, nor is that what is being discussed.

The action taken here is in relation to unlicensed mosques that have been set up independently from the official islamic bodies, and who don't represent the mainstream French muslim population. There is no indication that there is any problem vis-a-vis radicalisation in the the mainstream, licensed mosques that represent the vast majority of muslims in France.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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