Australian Politics Forum - The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates

Karnal

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #60 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:00pm

double plus good wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:25pm:

I've thought about this. If an employer wants you to work on a sunday for no benefit then say you've got to go to church. They can't do anything about it.

True, Honky. And if you want to get off on a Friday, say you have to go to the mosque.

It works every time.

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double plus good

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #61 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:03pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:00pm:

double plus good wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:25pm:

I've thought about this. If an employer wants you to work on a sunday for no benefit then say you've got to go to church. They can't do anything about it.

True, Honky. And if you want to get off on a Friday, say you have to go to the mosque.

It works every time.

That's funny because my local mosque is packed on a Friday. I suppose there's a certain level of flexibility being a taxi driver.

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crocodile

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #62 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #63 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

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stunspore

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #64 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:54pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:50pm:

What the penalty rate abolitionists simply do not get:

Many customers of businesses are only able to be customers because they receive penalty rates.

These businesses have to rely on other businesses not cutting penalty rates to keep their current level of custom. If this does not happen, the business won't make any more money even with reduced pay because their customers have less to spend.

Why? The economy acts like an ecosystem with its parts in balance. Abolishing penalty rates would disturb that balance. All it would do is stifle the economy.

Exactly.

Abolishing penalty rates has the potential to increase unemployment.

Also the disposable/discretionary income of many and hence less shopping.

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Swagman

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #65 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:27pm

stunspore wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:50pm:

What the penalty rate abolitionists simply do not get:

Many customers of businesses are only able to be customers because they receive penalty rates.

These businesses have to rely on other businesses not cutting penalty rates to keep their current level of custom. If this does not happen, the business won't make any more money even with reduced pay because their customers have less to spend.

Why? The economy acts like an ecosystem with its parts in balance. Abolishing penalty rates would disturb that balance. All it would do is stifle the economy.

Exactly.

Abolishing penalty rates has the potential to increase unemployment.

Also the disposable/discretionary income of many and hence less shopping.

So limit it to new employment contracts.

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Dnarever

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #66 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:31pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:27pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:50pm:

What the penalty rate abolitionists simply do not get:

Many customers of businesses are only able to be customers because they receive penalty rates.

These businesses have to rely on other businesses not cutting penalty rates to keep their current level of custom. If this does not happen, the business won't make any more money even with reduced pay because their customers have less to spend.

Why? The economy acts like an ecosystem with its parts in balance. Abolishing penalty rates would disturb that balance. All it would do is stifle the economy.

Exactly.

Abolishing penalty rates has the potential to increase unemployment.

Also the disposable/discretionary income of many and hence less shopping.

So limit it to new employment contracts.

Just defers the damage ?

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crocodile

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #67 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #68 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:11pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

.....the decline in manufacturing jobs is not theory but fact.

.. and caused by the ability to pay an Indian ship kicker $10 a day... nothing to do with penalty rates... only to do with exploitation....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #69 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:13pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody has said that either.

Where are you getting this stuff from?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #70 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:14pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:27pm:

stunspore wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:54pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Bam wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:50pm:

What the penalty rate abolitionists simply do not get:

Many customers of businesses are only able to be customers because they receive penalty rates.

These businesses have to rely on other businesses not cutting penalty rates to keep their current level of custom. If this does not happen, the business won't make any more money even with reduced pay because their customers have less to spend.

Why? The economy acts like an ecosystem with its parts in balance. Abolishing penalty rates would disturb that balance. All it would do is stifle the economy.

Exactly.

Abolishing penalty rates has the potential to increase unemployment.

Also the disposable/discretionary income of many and hence less shopping.

So limit it to new employment contracts.

Why?

Why take away workers' penalty rates?

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crocodile

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #71 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:42pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:13pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody has said that either.

Where are you getting this stuff from?

It comes from you. You assert that diminished penalty rates wont increase employment. Unless every sector is in perfect equilibrium the reverse will also be true.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #72 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:44pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:42pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:13pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody has said that either.

Where are you getting this stuff from?

It comes from you.

No, it does not.

You've manufactured it out of thin air.

Try to stay focused, and just stick to the facts.

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crocodile

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #73 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:47pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 7:11pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

.....the decline in manufacturing jobs is not theory but fact.

.. and caused by the ability to pay an Indian ship kicker $10 a day... nothing to do with penalty rates... only to do with exploitation....

It's not even that. Swaggie is also dead wrong linking manufacturing decline to wages as well. The reason manufacturing has halved over the last forty years is because the rates of marginal productivity gains have been better elsewhere. Bigger returns on investments etc etc. Thankfully there are glimmers of hope as labour productivity in secondary industries are on the up. Bad luck that capital productivity is still shithouse.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #74 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 8:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Your words peccer.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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