Australian Politics Forum - The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139800
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #75 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 9:59pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Your words peccer.

A simple fact.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59377
Here
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #76 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Specifically when penalty rates were removed in WA it had no impact on employment or the number of businesses opening after hours and the same thing happened under workchoices where penalty rates were removed across the hospitality industry for no result except for $'s in the employers pocket.

Two substantial trials have shown that the claims of increased employment and more business opening are pie in the sky or part of the type of story that commences with "Once upon a time in a land far far away".

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 11:28pm by Dnarever »

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #77 - Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 9:59pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Your words peccer.

A simple fact.

If it is so simple, good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139800
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #78 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:28am

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 9:59pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 8:26pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Your words peccer.

A simple fact.

If it is so simple, good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Current rates aren't that high.

Moreover, nobody is asking to increase penalty rates.

Try to remain focused.

Back to top

IP Logged

tickleandrose Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4106 Gender:	Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates Reply #79 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:32am On the other hand of economy, if we decrease overall disposable income of employees nation wide would produce less consumer and business confidence, less spending, and poor taxation outcome.
Back to top	IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139800
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #80 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:33am

Dnarever wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Exactly.

Current rates aren't causing unemployment.

Moreover, nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

Who knows what quadrupling them would do?

However, nobody is suggesting that, so it's completely irrelevant.

People need to remain focused.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra: they just want to retain their current benefits, which don't contribute to unemployment.

Back to top

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #81 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:03am

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:33am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Exactly.

Current rates aren't causing unemployment.

Moreover, nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

Who knows what quadrupling them would do?

However, nobody is suggesting that, so it's completely irrelevant.

People need to remain focused.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra: they just want to retain their current benefits, which don't contribute to unemployment.

You never said any of that. You made a sweeping generalization without qualification. You should try to stay focused.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139800
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #82 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:21am

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:03am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:33am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Exactly.

Current rates aren't causing unemployment.

Moreover, nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

Who knows what quadrupling them would do?

However, nobody is suggesting that, so it's completely irrelevant.

People need to remain focused.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra: they just want to retain their current benefits, which don't contribute to unemployment.

You never said any of that. You made a sweeping generalization without qualification. You should try to stay focused.

Everybody knows that this is a discussion about current penalty rates.

Moreover, everybody knows that nobody is asking for an increase.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical about higher penalty rates that don't actually exist, perhaps you could start a new thread.

This thread, however, is about how things are right now, in the real world: penalty rates aren't causing unemployment.

Back to top

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #83 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:30am

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:21am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:03am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:33am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Exactly.

Current rates aren't causing unemployment.

Moreover, nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

Who knows what quadrupling them would do?

However, nobody is suggesting that, so it's completely irrelevant.

People need to remain focused.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra: they just want to retain their current benefits, which don't contribute to unemployment.

You never said any of that. You made a sweeping generalization without qualification. You should try to stay focused.

Everybody knows that this is a discussion about current penalty rates.

Moreover, everybody knows that nobody is asking for an increase.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical about higher penalty rates that don't actually exist, perhaps you could start a new thread.

This thread, however, is about how things are right now, in the real world: penalty rates aren't causing unemployment.

You don't know that. It is only speculation.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139800
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #84 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:32am

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:30am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:21am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:03am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:33am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Exactly.

Current rates aren't causing unemployment.

Moreover, nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

Who knows what quadrupling them would do?

However, nobody is suggesting that, so it's completely irrelevant.

People need to remain focused.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra: they just want to retain their current benefits, which don't contribute to unemployment.

You never said any of that. You made a sweeping generalization without qualification. You should try to stay focused.

Everybody knows that this is a discussion about current penalty rates.

Moreover, everybody knows that nobody is asking for an increase.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical about higher penalty rates that don't actually exist, perhaps you could start a new thread.

This thread, however, is about how things are right now, in the real world: penalty rates aren't causing unemployment.

You don't know that. It is only speculation.

If penalty rates are causing unemployment, let's see the proof.

Well ... ?

Back to top

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates Reply #85 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:41am Australian penalty rates - much like the oppressive deferred compensation superannuation laws - absolutely can cause Australia to be uncompetitive. Cost of labour in Australia for my mind is far too high for base level workforce.
Back to top	Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #86 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:44am

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:32am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:30am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:21am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:03am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:33am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Exactly.

Current rates aren't causing unemployment.

Moreover, nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

Who knows what quadrupling them would do?

However, nobody is suggesting that, so it's completely irrelevant.

People need to remain focused.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra: they just want to retain their current benefits, which don't contribute to unemployment.

You never said any of that. You made a sweeping generalization without qualification. You should try to stay focused.

Everybody knows that this is a discussion about current penalty rates.

Moreover, everybody knows that nobody is asking for an increase.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical about higher penalty rates that don't actually exist, perhaps you could start a new thread.

This thread, however, is about how things are right now, in the real world: penalty rates aren't causing unemployment.

You don't know that. It is only speculation.

If penalty rates are causing unemployment, let's see the proof.

Well ... ?

You're the one that made claim sunny boy. So let's see it.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139800
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #87 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:49am

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:44am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:32am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:30am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:21am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:03am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:33am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Exactly.

Current rates aren't causing unemployment.

Moreover, nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

Who knows what quadrupling them would do?

However, nobody is suggesting that, so it's completely irrelevant.

People need to remain focused.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra: they just want to retain their current benefits, which don't contribute to unemployment.

You never said any of that. You made a sweeping generalization without qualification. You should try to stay focused.

Everybody knows that this is a discussion about current penalty rates.

Moreover, everybody knows that nobody is asking for an increase.

If you want to discuss a hypothetical about higher penalty rates that don't actually exist, perhaps you could start a new thread.

This thread, however, is about how things are right now, in the real world: penalty rates aren't causing unemployment.

You don't know that. It is only speculation.

If penalty rates are causing unemployment, let's see the proof.

Well ... ?

You're the one that made claim sunny boy. So let's see it.

The onus is on those who say that penalty rates DO cause unemployment.

No proof provided thus far.

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139800
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #88 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:50am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:41am:

Australian penalty rates - much like the oppressive deferred compensation superannuation laws - absolutely can cause Australia to be uncompetitive.

Cost of labour in Australia for my mind is far too high for base level workforce.

Nice theory.

Do you have any proof that penalty rates cause unemployment?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 59377
Here
Gender: male

Re: The Attack On Weekend Penalty Rates
Reply #89 - Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:56am

crocodile wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 10:03am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2016 at 9:33am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 10:06pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 5:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:20pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2016 at 2:32pm:

However, "penalty rates are a cause of unemployment" is demonstrably wrong.

......'a' cause, not 'the' cause.

For my statement to be "demonstrably wrong" you would have to prove that the increasing of any operating expense without a corresponding sales boost, would have no detrimental effect on a business and employment?

Once again, you're looking at theory.

In the real world, in the workplace, penalty rates don't cause unemployment.

Good. Let's increase penalty rates to quadruple time.

Nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

But the price of labour has no effect on employment

Nobody said that. People say that penalty rates do not impact employment.

Maybe more specifically the current penalty rates do not impact employment there is obviously some point where they would if they were increased.

Exactly.

Current rates aren't causing unemployment.

Moreover, nobody is asking for an increase in penalty rates.

Who knows what quadrupling them would do?

However, nobody is suggesting that, so it's completely irrelevant.

People need to remain focused.

Workers aren't asking for anything extra: they just want to retain their current benefits, which don't contribute to unemployment.

You never said any of that. You made a sweeping generalization without qualification. You should try to stay focused.

It isn't exactly unreasonable to assume that when we talk about penalty rates we are actually talking about the Australian rates currently in use ?

Back to top

IP Logged