Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 19
Send Topic Print
more suppression of free speech (Read 12456 times)
Quantum
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 3373
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #90 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:12pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:00am:
And from the angles of the camera it's hardly hidden. Especially when it's all staged.


In a real film set there would be over a dozen people filming a simple scene. There would be a professional camera, maybe as large as 1 meter long, about 30 cm wide, as much as 50 cm high, plus on top of that it would probably be sitting on a large stand/post. There would be someone with a microphone boom arm, a director, probably a lot of audio visual equipment with possibly a van or two sitting close, and there would probably be artificial lighting posts set up as well. It would be so obvious it was a film scene, especially since parts of the street would be cordoned off.   

What were these guys using? A cam corder? Maybe only a mobile phone? If it was a phone you may not even know they were recording the scene even if you were looking at them. Plus with everyone being youtube journalist these days, even if the scene was real you would expect at least someone to be standing filming it on their phone.

I seriously can't see how in the heat of the moment it would be obvious to a cop that it was film set. In fact, it wouldn't even be a shock that such an event would be filmed by a group of terrorist anyway. You can see plenty of internet films of terrorist actions captured by the terrorist themselves. Why would any cop assume such a scene was just a home video for fun?      
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 96704
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #91 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 6:35pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:31am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:23am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 2:51am:
Swagman wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:24am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:13am:
Swagman wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 12:59am:
...that's not free speech.

  Just like a fake triple 0.  Throw the book at the wenkers

It is freedom of speech because it is artistic expression.


..so ringing triple 0 as a prank, is artistic expression in your book?   Huh

is it ringing triple 0 or pretending to ring triple 0 but actually ringing a staged triple 0, for the purposes of artistic expression?

Get off it swag - for a guy who claims to want small government you are happy to see government interfere in absolutely ridiculous areas.  Such as charging kids for making a youtube video.


You miss the point. What if Police had driven past and seen them doing that? They could've been shot dead. Not to mention how traumatised members of the public can be by such an idiotic prank.

If the police saw them and decided to shoot instead of restrain then it would be murder.  And again, no trauma - it was all stAgggged.  Plus why do you care about trauma? You're one of those "ooooh racism is so pc today".  You know how many people are left traumatised be caused of racism?  Be consistent!!


No one has the right to not be traumatised, Alevine.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
ian
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 9451
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #92 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:47pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 11:06pm:
The cops are insane in this issue - why are we wasting time and money on what is obviously a prank????

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/they-were-all-actors-jalals-admit-girl-in-driv...

Their insistence to charge these pranksters is nothing more than an attempt to suppress acts of free speech from ordinary citizens.

Oh yes , all so merry. what a prank, pretending to kill and bomb people. heres the thing, if I thought my life or someone elses life was in immediate danger and I was able to, I wouldnt hesitate. Killing someone  to stop them doing harm would be appropriate and highly explainable in the coroners court. Some people are trained to run towards danger and stop it, by any means available, not run away from it like you. Thats what these fools dont understand. Like you I dont think these people should be charged, i just think they should be allowed to do it until they come across the wrong person.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sprintcyclist
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 40774
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #93 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:52pm
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 12:44pm:
Sounds more than a bit unfair to suggest that a cop confronted by someone with what looks like an automatic weapon has the time to consider fake beards and such.  In this climate of recent murders by tent wearers, these kids were utterly stupid.  Why blame the cops?

Anyone remember Parramatta police HQ and the IT guy shot dead?  How many would at first find it impossible to believe that kid was going to shoot the guy?  How many would first think it was a stunt or a movie being made?  What was any cop arriving before the shooting took place to assume?  That it was all a stunt?

What about Mad Man Monis?  Oh - it's just a reality TV show..... ho, ho..... or it's a counter-terrorism exercise... ho, ho, ho... oh, somebody's making a movie about a siege....



agreed
Back to top
 

Modern Classic Right Wing
 
IP Logged
 
Mr Hammer
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 25212
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #94 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:42am
 
Those artists should have  tried one of their pranks on a plane;that would have been epic. Nothing like seeing asswipes getting armbarred.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #95 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:54am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 12:16pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:54am:
And unshoot the idiot kid? Or just nominate him for the Darwin awards?

Yes they probably would as a matter of procedure.

One doeset protect from  trigger happy cops by criminalizing and banning everything.


True. But not pointing a plastic gun at them while pretending to commit a violent crime would be a bloody good idea, don't you think Alevine? Perhaps the sort of thing the Darwin awards are targeted at?

Whatever happened to those "reasonable steps" you were banging on about? Does it no longer count as a "good effort" to film your brother getting shot by a trigger happy cop? So long as you have the evidence to hold against the shooter and justice is done, everything is OK, right?


what about plastic knives? Should it be illegal for me to hold a plastic knife in a picnic area in the event the cops feel threatened and decide to shoot first before properly assessing the situation?  I mean the laws are not there to be used I address the lack of training and poor judgement of police officers.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #96 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:57am
 
Quantum wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:12pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:00am:
And from the angles of the camera it's hardly hidden. Especially when it's all staged.


In a real film set there would be over a dozen people filming a simple scene. There would be a professional camera, maybe as large as 1 meter long, about 30 cm wide, as much as 50 cm high, plus on top of that it would probably be sitting on a large stand/post. There would be someone with a microphone boom arm, a director, probably a lot of audio visual equipment with possibly a van or two sitting close, and there would probably be artificial lighting posts set up as well. It would be so obvious it was a film scene, especially since parts of the street would be cordoned off.   

What were these guys using? A cam corder? Maybe only a mobile phone? If it was a phone you may not even know they were recording the scene even if you were looking at them. Plus with everyone being youtube journalist these days, even if the scene was real you would expect at least someone to be standing filming it on their phone.

I seriously can't see how in the heat of the moment it would be obvious to a cop that it was film set. In fact, it wouldn't even be a shock that such an event would be filmed by a group of terrorist anyway. You can see plenty of internet films of terrorist actions captured by the terrorist themselves. Why would any cop assume such a scene was just a home video for fun?      

Typical attempts to try and falsely rationalise because we have to be subservient to authority. 

It would be incredibly unusual for a police man to drive around the corner, guns blazing.  Your scenario would more likely play out by the kids seeing the cops, dropping the fake guns and corporating.  And if the cops shot the kids after that then throw away the key at the cops.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #97 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:58am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:42am:
Those artists should have  tried one of their pranks on a plane;that would have been epic. Nothing like seeing asswipes getting armbarred.

There is an actual law against fake alerts for planes.  But only from a logistical perspective.  I would suggest again that freedom of speech ought not be limited and thus such actions maybe can have civil action, but never criminal.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #98 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 6:02am
 
ian wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:47pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 11:06pm:
The cops are insane in this issue - why are we wasting time and money on what is obviously a prank????

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/they-were-all-actors-jalals-admit-girl-in-driv...

Their insistence to charge these pranksters is nothing more than an attempt to suppress acts of free speech from ordinary citizens.

Oh yes , all so merry. what a prank, pretending to kill and bomb people. heres the thing, if I thought my life or someone elses life was in immediate danger and I was able to, I wouldnt hesitate. Killing someone  to stop them doing harm would be appropriate and highly explainable in the coroners court. Some people are trained to run towards danger and stop it, by any means available, not run away from it like you. Thats what these fools dont understand. Like you I dont think these people should be charged, i just think they should be allowed to do it until they come across the wrong person.


100% false.  Even if we were to believe that you would immediately jump to being a hero and killing everyone with your bare hands, it would be deemed manslaughter and likely you would be charged and jailed. 

But the more likely scenario is that you would throw children in front of you and run faster than the speed of sound, in the opposite direction.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
The Heartless Felon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2869
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #99 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 6:52am
 
Is April 1st early this year?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #100 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:03am
 
The Heartless Felon wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 6:52am:
Is April 1st early this year?

Do you ask yourself that every time you watch gotcha shows?
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49487
At my desk.
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #101 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:03am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:54am:
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 12:16pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:54am:
And unshoot the idiot kid? Or just nominate him for the Darwin awards?

Yes they probably would as a matter of procedure.

One doeset protect from  trigger happy cops by criminalizing and banning everything.


True. But not pointing a plastic gun at them while pretending to commit a violent crime would be a bloody good idea, don't you think Alevine? Perhaps the sort of thing the Darwin awards are targeted at?

Whatever happened to those "reasonable steps" you were banging on about? Does it no longer count as a "good effort" to film your brother getting shot by a trigger happy cop? So long as you have the evidence to hold against the shooter and justice is done, everything is OK, right?


what about plastic knives? Should it be illegal for me to hold a plastic knife in a picnic area in the event the cops feel threatened and decide to shoot first before properly assessing the situation?  I mean the laws are not there to be used I address the lack of training and poor judgement of police officers. 


Yes you should be allowed to, and you are.

Now let me guess, you cannot tell the difference between that and what these idiot kids did, other than that it is a "touchy subject"?

Quote:
Typical attempts to try and falsely rationalise because we have to be subservient to authority.


No Alevine, he is just highlighting the absurdity of your argument that a single camera off in the distance should have made it obvious to a policeman or member of the public that it is a staged film set. It is just as absurd as your argument that criminals never wear disguises while committing a crime.

Quote:
It would be incredibly unusual for a police man to drive around the corner, guns blazing.  Your scenario would more likely play out by the kids seeing the cops, dropping the fake guns and corporating.  And if the cops shot the kids after that then throw away the key at the cops.


True. They had good odds of surviving. They were probably more likely to come to grief from an untrained member of the public. So tell us Alevine, what likelihood of someone dying would you be willing to tolerate, per stunt? 1 in 1000? 1 in 100000?
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:09am by freediver »  

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #102 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:07am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:03am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:54am:
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 12:16pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:54am:
And unshoot the idiot kid? Or just nominate him for the Darwin awards?

Yes they probably would as a matter of procedure.

One doeset protect from  trigger happy cops by criminalizing and banning everything.


True. But not pointing a plastic gun at them while pretending to commit a violent crime would be a bloody good idea, don't you think Alevine? Perhaps the sort of thing the Darwin awards are targeted at?

Whatever happened to those "reasonable steps" you were banging on about? Does it no longer count as a "good effort" to film your brother getting shot by a trigger happy cop? So long as you have the evidence to hold against the shooter and justice is done, everything is OK, right?


what about plastic knives? Should it be illegal for me to hold a plastic knife in a picnic area in the event the cops feel threatened and decide to shoot first before properly assessing the situation?  I mean the laws are not there to be used I address the lack of training and poor judgement of police officers. 


Yes you should be allowed to, and you are.

Now let me guess, you cannot tell the difference between that and what these idiot kids did, other than that it is a "touchy subject"?


I can't actually. What is it so bad that they did?

Should it be illegal to run with someone while holding a cricket bat?  The cops might confuse The situation and start killing immediately.

I mean sorry but it's a ludicrous argument to suggest that something that poses no danger should be for some reason illegal. And it's ridiculous to try and rationalise it with wild what ifs.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
sir prince duke alevine
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #103 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:11am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:03am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 28th, 2016 at 5:54am:
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 12:16pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 11:54am:
And unshoot the idiot kid? Or just nominate him for the Darwin awards?

Yes they probably would as a matter of procedure.

One doeset protect from  trigger happy cops by criminalizing and banning everything.


True. But not pointing a plastic gun at them while pretending to commit a violent crime would be a bloody good idea, don't you think Alevine? Perhaps the sort of thing the Darwin awards are targeted at?

Whatever happened to those "reasonable steps" you were banging on about? Does it no longer count as a "good effort" to film your brother getting shot by a trigger happy cop? So long as you have the evidence to hold against the shooter and justice is done, everything is OK, right?


what about plastic knives? Should it be illegal for me to hold a plastic knife in a picnic area in the event the cops feel threatened and decide to shoot first before properly assessing the situation?  I mean the laws are not there to be used I address the lack of training and poor judgement of police officers. 


Yes you should be allowed to, and you are.

Now let me guess, you cannot tell the difference between that and what these idiot kids did, other than that it is a "touchy subject"?

Quote:
Typical attempts to try and falsely rationalise because we have to be subservient to authority.


No Alevine, he is just highlighting the absurdity of your argument that a single camera off in the distance should have made it obvious to a policeman or member of the public that it is a staged film set. It is just as absurd as your argument that criminals never wear disguises while committing a crime.


What's absurd is to assume cops don't first assess a situation before starting to shoot, and that somehow kids who have taken precautions like staging an act and doing it in a basically empty street would all of a sudden refuse to obey police instructions to the point of holding their fake guns at the cops and being confused for criminals who ought to be killed.

But keep coming up with these what ifs to try and justify the overzealous actions of the police force. It's quite fun.
Back to top
 

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49487
At my desk.
Re: more suppression of free speech
Reply #104 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 7:12am
 
If you can see the obvious difference, why bring it up?

A cop will not shoot you if you merely have a cricket bat. Compared to an automatic weapon, the urgency to disarm you is not there. If you have an automatic weapon, the cop is pretty much obliged to shoot first in the interests of public safety. And if you do not appear to be committing a crime, there is also far less urgency.

Are you just pretending to not see the difference? How many different ways do we need to explain this to you?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 19
Send Topic Print