Australian Politics Forum - AFIC physically threaten female lawyer

Frank

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Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer
Reply #75 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:01pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 4:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 7:20pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 6:45pm:

Why are Muslims migrating to non-Muslim countries in such large numbers? We don't see non-Muslims migrating to Muslim countries at a similar rate?

What's wrong with Muslim countries?

What do you mean by Muslim countries, Frank? Countries with Muslims, or Muslim laws and forms of government?

I mean countries that are characterised by having lots of Muslims and very often only Muslims and so the laws and customs are based on Muslim and Islamic laws and customs and history and all the rest of what gives a country its demographic characteristics.
Or perhaps I could have said that countries that identify themselves as Muslim by being members of some international Muslim organisation like the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation.

Is there some other way to identify Muslim countries? How do you identify a country whether it's Muslim or secular or Christian or Jewish or Buddhist or Taoist or something else?

I’d say the same as you, Frank - countries with a majority of Muslims. And do you know? I’ve never heard an Indian or Philippino guest worker complain about the Muslim aspect of Dubai or Qatar or other majority Muslim countries when I’ve asked about this. Some I’ve met have lived in these countries for years.- one Indian farm worker for 20 years. I met an Indian electrician last week who was heading off to Iraq for a 3 year contract. He was daunted, but not by the religion.

People go where the work is, and that’s the way it’s been throughout most of history. If the money was good enough, I’d consider living in Saudi Arabia myself.

It would have to be pretty good though.

How does that explain in any way why Muslims should come to the West? It just reinforces my point - why don't Muslims go to other Muslim countries? Why come to the West and then blow up Brussels airport?

What's the point to come to the West to be disaffected and hostile? Come to the West if you want to live like a Westerner but go to a Muslim country if you want to live like a Muslim.

Are you telling me that these Muslims sell out their Islamic culture for financial advantage and once they have the money they sell out the Western countries that took them in and blow up their airports and trains as a thank you for taking us in??

Why attack the countries that took them in? I don't get that. Why would a Muslim carry out a terrorist attack in a European country that has given him peace, money and an opportunity to make something of his life? Why would they grope and rape the women? What do they think they are entitled to?i

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Karnal

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Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer
Reply #76 - Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:24pm

Frank, the countries with the most refugees are Muslim.countries - Pakistan (nominal) and Turkey and Lebanon (per capita). The countries with the highest percentage of immigrant labour are Muslim countries. Some Muslim.countries even outsource their courts, public sectors or business to non-Muslim ethnic groups like Gujurati Indians or Sri Lankans.

I’m not really sure what you’re talking about or why you’ve inserted it in a thread on Muslim schools in Australia.

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freediver

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Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer
Reply #77 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 10:37am

Here you go Gandalf:

freediver wrote on Mar 12^th, 2016 at 1:13pm:

Quote:

What an absurd thing to say - that parents and friends of students are not interested in whether or not they get screwed over again and threatened with school shutdown.

School shutdown - bad

Muslim institutions acting as businesses - oh that's normal. Catholic Church. Pedophiles. Alien abductions.

Quote:

Do you think we enjoy not knowing whether our kids will have a school in two weeks, and madly trying to run around looking for another school they can go to?

I think the fact it was allowed to get so bad reflects a more fundamental problem, but the response amounts to little more than complaining about getting caught.

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And you you seriously think we are not pissed off with the people who are responsible - just because we acknowledge the bleeding obvious - that organised religions invariably act like businesses.

Muslim ones certainly do, but I consider this far from inevitable for normal religious institutions.

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You can say they shouldn't be for profit, but the reality is its impractical not to

Running on a not-for-profit basis is considered by most people as a fundamental pre-requisite for any charity, social or religious institution. Even sporting clubs are expected to do this. I am a member of one with significant spare funds that survive through disagreement and change of executive without anyone raiding the kitty or deciding the funds should go to anything other than the sport they represent. Having such institutions is an important part of civilised society.

Quote:

and they need a business mindset to survive

Crap. You don't have to be a good businessman to not raid the kitty. You just have to be honest (I know, you cannot possibly expect this from Muslim leaders, and scratch your head that others would be so naive....). It was the "business mindset" that is now destroying the AFIC (I hope), and up to 6 schools.

Quote:

I don't see how this is any worse that what AFIC is doing

I did not claim it is, but a profit seeking mindset is not the fundamental cause of the pedophilia problems facing the church, or even the church's handing of the matter, and you have demonstrated some interesting mental gymnastics to make the link.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer Reply #78 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 11:06am riiight... so if I remember correctly your argument is that I neglected to respond to this little anecdote of yours? ...And that proves that big religious organisations aren't business like?
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freediver

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Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer
Reply #79 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 1:18pm

I am still trying to get my head around this distinction you are trying to make. Why is it inevitable for this sort of thing to happen when it is a large Islamic organisation running the show, but not when it is a small one? If anything, I would expect large organisations to be easier to hold to account. They certainly have a lot more to lose. If you ignore the fact they are Muslims, AFIC is the exception, not the norm.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer Reply #80 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 3:48pm Sorry FD, are you saying small, community organisations are more likely to be business-like than large national and trans-national ones? Do you think that your beloved little tennis club is more business-oriented than Tennis Australia?
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freediver

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Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer
Reply #81 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 4:44pm

I have no idea if tennis Australia is a business or charity Gandalf. But assuming it is a charity, both have to survive in the financial sense, but that does not make AFIC-style behaviour inevitable in either. Throwing the money away will destroy the organisation just as quickly as stealing it.

To be honest I think tennis is a bad example. I expect tennis clubs to be businesses. Tennis courts are expensive and the game is not cheap to play. The social tennis club I have been going to actually is a business, run for profit. Though I would expect it to be a bit different in small towns. I would not bother going to a meeting of a tennis club or getting involved in how it is run, unless I was paid, any more than I would donate my time to the local pub.

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Frank

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Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer
Reply #82 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 7:59pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:24pm:

Frank, the countries with the most refugees are Muslim.countries - Pakistan (nominal) and Turkey and Lebanon (per capita). The countries with the highest percentage of immigrant labour are Muslim countries. Some Muslim.countries even outsource their courts, public sectors or business to non-Muslim ethnic groups like Gujurati Indians or Sri Lankans.

I’m not really sure what you’re talking about or why you’ve inserted it in a thread on Muslim schools in Australia.

I meant permanent settlement of refugees, not just housing them in camps until a Western country takes them in permanently.

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Karnal

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Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer
Reply #83 - Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 8:14pm

Frank wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2016 at 7:59pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2016 at 7:24pm:

Frank, the countries with the most refugees are Muslim.countries - Pakistan (nominal) and Turkey and Lebanon (per capita). The countries with the highest percentage of immigrant labour are Muslim countries. Some Muslim.countries even outsource their courts, public sectors or business to non-Muslim ethnic groups like Gujurati Indians or Sri Lankans.

I’m not really sure what you’re talking about or why you’ve inserted it in a thread on Muslim schools in Australia.

I meant permanent settlement of refugees, not just housing them in camps until a Western country takes them in permanently.

The populations of Pakistan and Bangladesh comprise of nearly 50% of permanently settled refugees. Go to Jordan, Lebanon and even Syria, and you’ll find a significant number of permanently settled refugees too.

We’ve discussed this issue.beefore, Frank. I don’t know why you’re raising it here.

I wonder - are you just positing random complaints about Muslims?

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Frank

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Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer
Reply #84 - Mar 24^th, 2016 at 5:20pm

Not sure where you get your information from but the UNHCR Global Resettlement Statistical Report 2014 doesn't back up your claims. I can't post the link but Google should readily find it. It's on the What we do - Durable solutions - Resettlement page.

Maybe this is not the best place for this discussion. I just came across this thread and it seemed an appropriate thing to raise. Happy to leave it at this here.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96187 Gender:	Re: AFIC physically threaten female lawyer Reply #85 - Mar 24^th, 2016 at 5:53pm Frank wrote on Mar 24^th, 2016 at 5:20pm: Not sure where you get your information from but the UNHCR Global Resettlement Statistical Report 2014 doesn't back up your claims. I can't post the link but Google should readily find it. No worries, Frank. Feel free to quote it.
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