Australian Politics Forum - Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel

freediver

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Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Mar 16^th, 2016 at 6:21pm

Gandalf I realise that Islam compels you to put a positive spin on everything your fellow Muslims do and say, but surely there must be some kind of limit.

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2016 at 6:36am:

Karnal wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 8:53pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 7:08pm:

|dev|null wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 1:24pm:

Soren wrote on Mar 14^th, 2016 at 10:27am:

[quote
Sooooo..... why aren't the rich Muslim countries give permanent settlement to Muslim refugees?

Because that would legitamise the position of their oppressors. This way, pressure is kept on, primarily the Zionest creation commonly referred to as Israel. Why should they be allowed to ethnically cleanse the Middle-East?

Soren, you really are a wally, you realise that? Grin

Abu expressed similar sentiments. Muslims must maintain the suffering and violence in order to legitimise the inevitable war in which Muslims will finally wipe Israel off the map. It's all part of Islam's culture of protecting Jews.

Similar, were they?

I pressed him on this particular "quote" before. Turns out it was Falah, not Abu, and it was nothing like what he said. It took about 5 seconds of digging to discover that falah actually advocates peaceful coexistence with Israel.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:13pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2015 at 4:34pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21^st, 2015 at 9:15am:

freediver wrote on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 8:43pm:

Abu used to say that Israel's defeat was not merely inevitable, but just around the corner. That's why the Palestinians must never stop the attacks. The destruction of Israel needs to be justified by an ongoing war. If they make peace, they lose their chance. I think it is this mindset that causes the self destructive tendencies of the various Palestinian groups.

Would you mind finding a quote? Just curious is all...

Sorry, looks like it was mostly Falah - See, Abu is not the only source of this stuff.

falah wrote on May 23^rd, 2012 at 12:32pm:

If you don't surrender, you haven't lost.

Quote:

Falah, what is the difference between refusing to surrender when you have lost so miserably, and not wanting the bloodshed to continue? Do you actually think the Palestinians are on the verge of some kind of victory?

It is one thing to sign a peace treaty, another thing to surrender. We have seen what happens to those who made the mistake of surrender

History shows us that many wars have looked lost before they swung the other way.

It looked like the merciless Crusaders were firmly entrenched in the Palestine when Saladin became leader of Egypt in 1167. 20 years later Saladin had managed to unify the muslims in the region and expel the Christian invaders from Jerusalem. The Crusader occuaption of jerusalem last for 99 years. The Balfour Zionist occupation of Jerusalem has lasted 94 years.

In recent years Muslim have freed Sinai, Gaza and southern Lebanon from the Zionist occupation.

Since 2000 muslims have managed to force Israel to withdraw from Gaza and southern Lebanon. Full victory is just around the corner by the Grace of God Almighty.

Similar sounding rhetoric from Abu:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1315637372

Ah, so I'll notch that down as yet another thing that Abu didn't say. Its worthwhile checking these things.

Anyway, its a pretty bad example to use. Falah is clearly referring to war only in the context of reclaiming Palestinian land that Israel currently occupies - ie the West Bank. Your baseless claim that he is calling for the destruction of Israel is clearly refuted in subsequent comments:

Quote:

I believe Israelis can live as good neighbours as soon as they get off stolen Palestinian land.

Quote:

The Israelis can end the violence now by giving the Palestinians their land back. It is simple.

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:06am:

Quote:

Falah is clearly referring to war only in the context of reclaiming Palestinian land that Israel currently occupies - ie the West Bank.

Where is this made clear? They guy thinks that the Palestinians are about to have a military victory over Israel - beat them at war. He thinks Israel withdrawing from those patches is a sign of the tide turning in an ongoing war. He sees rocket and terrorist attacks as 'not surrendering' and warns against surrendering.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:01am:

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:06am:

Where is this made clear? They guy thinks that the Palestinians are about to have a military victory over Israel - beat them at war. He thinks Israel withdrawing from those patches is a sign of the tide turning in an ongoing war. He sees rocket and terrorist attacks as 'not surrendering' and warns against surrendering.

Nothing he says indicates he thinks this war entails the destruction of the state of Israel. In fact he infers the opposite by specifying that Israel could be a viable neighbour of Palestine.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #1 - Mar 16^th, 2016 at 6:25pm

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:38am:

So somehow you managed to go from never surrender and "Full victory is just around the corner by the Grace of God Almighty" to Falah supporting Israel's right to exist?

Tell me Gandalf, what you you think Hitler meant by the final solution?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:49am:

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:38am:

So somehow you managed to go from never surrender and "Full victory is just around the corner by the Grace of God Almighty" to Falah supporting Israel's right to exist?

Sure - until you can show me exactly where falah equates "full victory [etc]" with destroying the Israeli state.

How do you explain his insistence that Israel could be "good neighbours"?

freediver wrote on Dec 25^th, 2015 at 10:05pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 4:30pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 1:49pm:

I do not recall him ever saying that.

I just gave you the quote.

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 1:49pm:

I think he is the one who suggested Jews might be permitted to remain behind (and live as 'good neighbours' - ie obedient, paying the Jizya etc) in an Islamic State. Or maybe he was the one who suggested they go back to Europe where they all came from.

Yeah maybe. If in doubt - just invent some crap like you always do with Abu and me.

Which quote Gandalf? Please highlight the relevant bit for me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 26^th, 2015 at 10:07am:

freediver wrote on Dec 25^th, 2015 at 10:05pm:

Which quote Gandalf? Please highlight the relevant bit for me.

reply #43 - Israel can live as good neighbours - by falah.

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 3:51pm:

That's not what it says Gandalf. You should have figured this out when your attempt to paraphrase it had such awkward grammar.

Do you feel obliged to put a positive spin on the hate filled rants of fellow Muslims?

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« Last Edit: Mar 16^th, 2016 at 6:30pm by freediver »

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel Reply #2 - Mar 16^th, 2016 at 7:10pm Do you ever get tired of this routine FD? What do you think it achieves? Whats really sad is that you can't even see you refute your own BS with the quotes you post.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #3 - Mar 16^th, 2016 at 7:13pm

Quote:

Abu expressed similar sentiments. Muslims must maintain the suffering and violence in order to legitimise the inevitable war in which Muslims will finally wipe Israel off the map. It's all part of Islam's culture of protecting Jews.

Is obviously refuted by...

Quote:

I believe Israelis can live as good neighbours as soon as they get off stolen Palestinian land.

Now lets behold as FD exercises his legendary mental gymnastics to explain how a country can live as "good neighbours" after they have been "wiped off the map"

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel Reply #4 - Mar 16^th, 2016 at 8:53pm He is not talking about a country Gandalf.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #5 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 7:01am

Last I checked Israelis are people from Israel.

Can you explain how "Israelis" can live as "good neighbours" - or even exist after their country is "wiped off the map"? Can you find any quote at all from Falah supporting any of the crap you attribute him to (wiping Israel off the map, forcing jews to be "supported" in an Islamic state etc)? Because there's definitely nothing in the quotes you produced in the OP.

FD I realise that your perverted ideology compels you to put a negative spin on everything Muslims do and say, but surely there must be some kind of limit no?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #6 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 6:48pm

Israelis might be able to live as good neighbours by, for example:

* living next door
* being good
* not dying
* being Arab Muslims (many already are)
* obeying all the oppressive aspects of Islamic law

You are the one rejecting what he actually says at face value and substituting things he does not actually say. You attributed references to Israelis to references to the country Israel. If I said I had an American living next door, or several Americans, it would require some tortuous logic for someone to interpret that as saying I live in Mexico. You invented the bit about his openly hostile remarks regarding Israel being limited to Israeli territory gained after a certain date. There is nothing in what Falah says to indicate he intends such limitation.

It is a classic example of the constant and frantic efforts by Muslims to put a positive spin on what their fellow Muslims get up to.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #7 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 7:13pm

Gandalf, would you mind highlighting the bit where your fellow Muslim makes it "clear" he is only referring to the west bank?

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

The Palestinian, on the other hand, never invited the Jews to come and rule Palestine.

The Jews offer provocation after provocation. Stealing land, stealing more land, bombing civilians. The Jews were offered peace many times but their greed prevented them from ever making a peace deal.

Put simply, the Israeli Jews will never make peace because, as their rejection of every peace demonstrates, their greed is overwhelming.

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

Even by 1948, the Jews did not own much land in Palestine as these maps demonstrate:

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 7:01pm:

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 9:16am:

freediver wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 8:19am:

Quote:

But too I believe Palestinians can exist as neighbours to us.

I wonder if Abu and Falah could reciprocate this gesture without qualifying it as temporary or some other silly attempt at deception.

I believe Israelis can live as good neighbours as soon as they get off stolen Palestinian land.

And go where?

Wherever they came from.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #8 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 8:23pm

Ive got a better idea Fd how about you first show us where he said he wants to wipe Israel off the map? That is after all the specific phrase you attributed to him. Interesting that you dig up all these obscure quotes but nothing actually related to the map wiping claim. Kind of a relevant point seeing as you're lecturing me about falsely attributing things to other people.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #9 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 8:37pm

Quote:

. If I said I had an American living next door, or several Americans, it would require some tortuous logic for someone to interpret that as saying I live in Mexico

and as promised, the legendary mental gymnastics.

For any normal person, what would constitute "torturous logic" would be to interpret a Mexican supporter saying that Americans could be good neighbours if they withdrew from Mexican land (pretending for a moment the US occupied some part of Mexico), as a call to wipe the US off the map.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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moses

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #10 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 9:21pm

At the behest of a grand mufti, amin al husseini, hitler decided to implement the Jewish holocaust based on the methods of the turks in the Armenian holocaust / genocide.

It was a muslim German think tank which oversaw this atrocity

The Jews can never trust the muslims. (it's as simple as that)

As an aside

Maybe karma is catching up with the Germans as they reap the rewards of the utter stupidity of Angela Merkel in the present.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel Reply #11 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 9:29pm polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16^th, 2016 at 6:36am: It took about 5 seconds of digging to discover that falah actually advocates peaceful coexistence with Israel. I'll give you ten Gandalf.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel Reply #12 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 9:36pm Here you go Gandalf, show us you skills at spinning these into 'peaceful coexistence with Israel' falah wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 10:27pm: Israel will be responsible for its own demise falah wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:50pm: One day, Israelis will be held accountable for their war crimes.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel
Reply #13 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 10:32pm

freediver wrote on Mar 17^th, 2016 at 9:36pm:

spinning these into 'peaceful coexistence with Israel'

Can I instead show you my skills at interpreting 'Israelis could be good neighbours if they end the occupation' for advocating peaceful coexistence with Israel?

No?

Alright then, lets settle for coming up with even a single quote of Falah (or Abu if you like) saying this:

Quote:

Muslims must maintain the suffering and violence in order to legitimise the inevitable war in which Muslims will finally wipe Israel off the map. It's all part of Islam's culture of protecting Jews.

Are the last two quotes about reaping what they sow and being accountable for war crimes supposed to be it? Whats that again you were saying about skills at spinning?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49091 At my desk.	Re: Muslims want 'peaceful coexistence' with Israel Reply #14 - Mar 17^th, 2016 at 10:36pm See the opening post Gandalf. Do you still think Falah wants peaceful coexistence with Israel?
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