Australian Politics Forum - Not so 'moderate' Muslims

Sir James

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #135 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 1:09am

moses wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Quote:

It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians).

Why are you afraid of mentioning the N.T.?

Because that's all about Christianity and Jesus and is the New Covenant between God and Mankind and it proves them wrong and doesn't support the seething lust and hatred of Christians.

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matty = muslim with a mat collection, invented by the intellectual giants with an IQ of 81 or below. Yeah its such a gotcha , I know. Roll Eyes

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Sir James

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #136 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 1:16am

At the end of the day there are no moderate or extreme muslims.

There is only just muslims as they all believe the same book that teaches terrorism and hatred and they ALL call it the word of their god and holy. It takes a mental giant to actually do that.

Whether breast beating, committing terrorist acts, cheering from the sidelines or sitting in the corner keeping quiet with fingers crossed. If they believe that book is their gods and it is holy they are all terrorists as that book propagates.

If someone says yeah I am a muslim but don't believe those terrorist parts they are simply a person calling them self a muslim who is really not. Most of those in their very next breath will say the qur'an is holy and thus making a fool of themselves and hypocrites.

There is no moderate or extreme muslim. You just have muslims.

It ain't that hard to understand. Really its not.

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matty = muslim with a mat collection, invented by the intellectual giants with an IQ of 81 or below. Yeah its such a gotcha , I know. Roll Eyes

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Karnal

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #137 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:45pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 8:24pm:

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 3:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 2:42pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 4:05am:

Just because someone does something and says that they are a christian does NOT make it Christianity.

It does if they are obeying the commands of God, the teachings of Jesus, the verses in the Bible (they are the highest grade of Christians).

Yes, Moses has been referred to these quotes -

........Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery.

Karnal,

I call, bull shyte and lies.

Please cite the scripture, .....O.T. or N.T. for such biblical/Christian punishments.

Sure, Y. I’ll give you the opportunity tonight to read your Bible and provide quotes. I’ll post tomorrow.

If you don’t find those quotes, will you agree to give up your day job as a Biblical scholar?

Karnal,

You are a deceitful fraud and slanderer.

Karnal,

Prove me wrong.

All you need to do, is to prove that the claims, which you made on this public forum [cited above] are true.

No worries, Y.

Burn them:

Quote:

Leviticus 20:14. And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

Quote:

Leviticus 21:9. And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Quote:

Genesis 38:24. Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

Stone & burn them:

Quote:

Joshua 7:15, 24-25. He that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath. ... And Joshua ... took Achan ... and his sons, and his daughters ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire.

Stone them:

Quote:

Leviticus 20:2. Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Quote:

Leviticus 24:16. And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

Quote:

Leviticus 24:23. And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Quote:

Deuteronomy 22:22. If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her.

Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Amputate them:

Quote:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12. When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her

Quote:

Hosea 13:16. Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Kill them all:

Quote:

Ezekiel 9:5-6. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary

An eye for an eye:

Quote:

Leviticus 24:20. Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #138 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:41pm

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully?

I can't think of an example.

The west has legislated numerous attacks on democratic freedoms - completely peacefully.

Start with the holocaust-denial laws. You realise its a gaolable offense in Germany and France and other places to publicly deny the holocaust right?

Also the example Baron gave. Should those muslim politicians in canada be denied the right to democratically propose anti-freedom legislation?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #139 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:48pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:30pm:

No. You are the one keeping tabs Gandalf, not me.

Sorry FD, are you saying you didn't set up the wiki to keep tabs? Should I dig up the many quotes of you saying you specifically set it up to keep tabs on the lies and deception of muslims?

And are you saying the spineless apologetics thread is not a "keeping tabs" thread?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #140 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:50pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:41pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully?

I can't think of an example.

The west has legislated numerous attacks on democratic freedoms - completely peacefully.

Start with the holocaust-denial laws. You realise its a gaolable offense in Germany and France and other places to publicly deny the holocaust right?

Also the example Baron gave. Should those muslim politicians in canada be denied the right to democratically propose anti-freedom legislation?

The holocaust denial laws only affect the idiots who think it never happened which includes muslims, hardly an infringement on the rest of us who are sane.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #141 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 1:09pm

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:30pm:

Are you referring to any proposals in particular? If you are talking about the "right" to dual citizenship, I am actually OK with that one. The last one I recall was when there was a call to ban the burqa here in Australia and in some European countries.

The last one you recall eh? Grin

Good one FD. Are you seriously telling me you are not aware of sprint's near-daily calls to ban and deport muslims whenever they sneeze the wrong way? Or Herb's more than daily calls to deport muslims even when they are being peaceful? In fact there is a recent example that I asked you about, Herb called for the staff of a private Islamic school to be deported for expressing views like women should stay in the home. Coincidentally, it was just yet another attack on muslim's freedom that you missed.

How about this one...

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1447837914/0

not only is sprint condoning a vicious physical attack on innocent muslims, in post#30 he calls for a woman to be deported for wearing a hijab - on the basis that "she is flagrantly flying the flag for terrorists and the destruction of our society" (post#45).

Ring any bells? Does it come across as a tad hypocritical that a freedom-lover as yourself, who nitpicks each and every attack on freedom by muslims and their apologists, would completely ignore all these attacks on freedom?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #142 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 1:10pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:50pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:41pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully?

I can't think of an example.

The west has legislated numerous attacks on democratic freedoms - completely peacefully.

Start with the holocaust-denial laws. You realise its a gaolable offense in Germany and France and other places to publicly deny the holocaust right?

Also the example Baron gave. Should those muslim politicians in canada be denied the right to democratically propose anti-freedom legislation?

The holocaust denial laws only affect the idiots who think it never happened which includes muslims, hardly an infringement on the rest of us who are sane.

Here you go FD, another spineless apology on attacks on freedom that you can ignore.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Yadda

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #143 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 6:32pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:45pm:

Karnal,

You are a deceitful fraud and slanderer.

Karnal,

Prove me wrong.

All you need to do, is to prove that the claims, which you made on this public forum [cited above] are true.

No worries, Y.

[Karnal quotes O.T. scripture]

Karnal,

re your post #137,

Well done!!!!!

We've got you reading, well, quoting actual O.T. scripture!

Karnal,

Re those O.T. punishments;

All of those punishments which you quoted, applied to ancient Hebrew covenant breakers.

And ONLY to Hebrew covenant breakers.

AS PER....

The Hebrew nation was in covenant with their God.

And those religious laws [and punishments] applied to members of the Hebrew nation, because they were 'in covenant' with their God.

AS PER....

Exodus 19:8

And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.

And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Leviticus 20:22
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
....
....
26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.

.

But, but, Karnal, .....where is the scripture which condemns nagging wives to having their tongues cut out [because they were nagging wives], and, the scripture which endorses the burning adulteresses to death [because they were adulteresses] ????

????

Karnal said.....
Quote:

........Old Testament quotes on everything from cutting out the tongues of nagging women to burning them to death for adultery.

p.s.
The description in Ezekiel 9:5-6 [which you quoted] is actually from a vision recorded by the prophet Ezekiel.

It is not the record of an event/punishment which actually occurred.

Ezekiel 8:1
And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.
3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.

But very good Karnal, if you were actually reading, actual O.T. scripture!

Bravo!!

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« Last Edit: Apr 5^th, 2016 at 6:43pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Frank

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #144 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 6:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 12:41pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully?

I can't think of an example.

The west has legislated numerous attacks on democratic freedoms - completely peacefully.

Start with the holocaust-denial laws. You realise its a gaolable offense in Germany and France and other places to publicly deny the holocaust right?

Also the example Baron gave. Should those muslim politicians in canada be denied the right to democratically propose anti-freedom legislation?

Well, their co-religionists are attacking Canada violently in the name of Islam. I don't think these Muslim politicians, who want anti-freedom laws in the name of Islam can ignore that connection.

SO no, I don't think that Islamists should be allowed to advocate and introduce laws in the name of Islam while other Islamists are committing violent attacks on the West in the name of the same political ideology.

I think under the circumstances advocates of Islamic laws should be treated as advocates of Nazi or Red Bridags or Soviet or other communist laws.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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freediver

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #145 - Apr 5^th, 2016 at 7:07pm

Quote:

Good one FD. Are you seriously telling me you are not aware of sprint's near-daily calls to ban and deport muslims

Like I said, I am not keeping tabs. Interpretted a certain way, I actually agree with these proposals.

In any case, I still do not see your point Gandalf. As far as I can tell you are criticising me for things I am not saying. Is there anything more to it than that? Suppose I completely ignored everything Sprint posts, would there be something wrong with that?

Quote:

Ring any bells? Does it come across as a tad hypocritical that a freedom-lover as yourself, who nitpicks each and every attack on freedom by muslims and their apologists, would completely ignore all these attacks on freedom?

I think it is entirely consistent with my views on Islam.

Quote:

Here you go FD, another spineless apology on attacks on freedom that you can ignore.

Thanks for reminding me. We had a long conversation about the holocaust denial laws. As I recall, I was trying to convince you that they were wrong at some stage. Does that count? Or do I need to remind you about it on a daily basis?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #146 - Apr 6^th, 2016 at 6:47am

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

In any case, I still do not see your point Gandalf. As far as I can tell you are criticising me for things I am not saying.

Essentially yes.

Its a valid criticism given how much emphasis you give on the importance of standing up for freedom (your stated motivation for setting up this board) - but then spend your whole time talking only about one particular type of threat to freedom. And not just talking about that particular threat, being so obsessed about it, keeping tabs on all the alleged lies and "apologetics" by muslims and their supporters (and then denying it), and obsessively stalking your favourite punching bags like me and greg all over the forum in order to make spiteful attacks on them. For someone who claims to be so passionate about freedom, it reeks of utter hypocrisy given a) before 2007 you seemed to think attacks on muslim freedoms were important enough to respond and counter and b) how pervasive are the attacks - and yet despite that you not only not seem to recognise it as a problem worth criticising, you even (incredibly) play dumb and pretend it doesn't happen.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #147 - Apr 6^th, 2016 at 11:59am

Yadda wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 6:32pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 10:58am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 10:45pm:

Karnal,

You are a deceitful fraud and slanderer.

Karnal,

Prove me wrong.

All you need to do, is to prove that the claims, which you made on this public forum [cited above] are true.

No worries, Y.

[Karnal quotes O.T. scripture]

Karnal,

re your post #137,

Well done!!!!!

We've got you reading, well, quoting actual O.T. scripture!

That's strange, Y. After all:

Quote:

People like you have no shame [in publishing lies], and so, have no credibility.

Can I ask, why did you not post these readings yourself?

Have you not read them?

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Karnal

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #148 - Apr 6^th, 2016 at 12:10pm

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2016 at 7:07pm:

Quote:

Good one FD. Are you seriously telling me you are not aware of sprint's near-daily calls to ban and deport muslims

Like I said, I am not keeping tabs. Interpretted a certain way, I actually agree with these proposals.

Ban them.

Kill them.

Nuke them.

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moses

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #149 - Apr 6^th, 2016 at 12:38pm

No telling the truth about islam is all that's required.

islam is the world's largest cult of killers.

The qur'an is a book of filth and perversion.

allah is an evil satanic deity worshipped by muslims.

muhammad was human filth (a thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer).

The tenets of islam inspire muslims to commit unspeakably inhumane deeds against their fellow man, in the name of islam.

islam is a degenerate putrefied doctrine, the proof is right in front of our eyes as we see the depraved actions of muslims around the globe, right now 2016.

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