Australian Politics Forum - Not so 'moderate' Muslims

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95210 Gender:	Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia Reply #90 - Apr 1^st, 2016 at 9:25pm freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2016 at 7:26pm: Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again? Feel free to say, FD. Isn’t that why you started this board?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia Reply #91 - Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 11:19am freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2016 at 7:26pm: Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again? Absolutely FD. Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you criticised proposals to strip muslims of their freedoms? Do you remember?
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Sir James

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #92 - Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 1:26pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Mar 26^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

With increasing scepticism one asks how many of the so-called 'moderate majority' of Muslims are in fact traitors to Western societies for barracking for the terrorists.

"When a classroom heard news of the horrific Brussels terrorist attack, the teacher immediately noticed something his Muslim students were doing that made his stomach churn. However, just four hours after he tweeted out what the teens were doing, he received a knock on his door.

Ivar Mol is a Dutch teacher who prides himself on instilling knowledge into his students, regardless of their background. However, soon after the recent attack on a Belgium airport and Metro, he noticed there is something particularly unique about his Muslim students.

While civilians were being slaughtered in Brussels, the Dutch teacher witnessed his Muslim students openly applauding and celebrating the carnage. In front of the entire class, the Islamic children laughed and praised the terrorist attack, as the rest of the non-Muslim students simply looked on in horror.

Mol quickly tweeted what was going on, asking, “How do you still teach when Muslim children in your class are applauding the attack?”

Immediate deportation for the entire extended families of these Muslim students is what commonsense would dictate.

Better still a dose of sharia law in the local town square with some machetes for our western entertainment.

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matty = muslim with a mat collection, invented by the intellectual giants with an IQ of 81 or below. Yeah its such a gotcha , I know. Roll Eyes

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Karnal

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #93 - Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 9:50pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 11:19am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2016 at 7:26pm:

Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again?

Absolutely FD.

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you criticised proposals to strip muslims of their freedoms? Do you remember?

FD won't say, G.

When was the last time he criticized things you did not say?

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Frank

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #94 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:26am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 11:19am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2016 at 7:26pm:

Am I right that you are criticising things I do not say again?

Absolutely FD.

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you criticised proposals to strip muslims of their freedoms? Do you remember?

Why do you demand equal freedom and equal treatment for people who want to defend secular democratic freedoms and those who want to destroy them? Why should the enemies of these freedoms be given the freedom to destroy?

You seem to think that these freedoms are absolute, regardless of place, circumstances, laws etc. But they are not. Islamists should not be free to intimidate others into Submission.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #95 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:45am

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:26am:

Why do you demand equal freedom and equal treatment for people who want to defend secular democratic freedoms and those who want to destroy them?

I think FD is better qualified to answer this. He can give his usual spiel about freedom containing the seeds of its own destruction.

What is your solution Frank? Deny certain people their freedoms because of the views they hold? Seems to me you're not really arguing in favour of freedom, but some sort of despotic system. That may be fine, but don't pretend you are standing up for secular democracy.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #96 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:11am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:45am:

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:26am:

Why do you demand equal freedom and equal treatment for people who want to defend secular democratic freedoms and those who want to destroy them?

I think FD is better qualified to answer this. He can give his usual spiel about freedom containing the seeds of its own destruction.

What is your solution Frank? Deny certain people their freedoms because of the views they hold? Seems to me you're not really arguing in favour of freedom, but some sort of despotic system. That may be fine, but don't pretend you are standing up for secular democracy.

Please don't try this nonsense on with me, it is really not credible.
The problem is that Islamists are not content to draw the line at expressing the views they hold.

The problem is that they are willing and prepared to murder and cause harm in the name of their views, in London, Paris, New York, Brussels, everywhere. Perhaps because the views they hold requires them to kill all who do not honour Islam and Mohammed.

And if they are not killing, they are suing others who have different views (lawfare), so even debate about their views is curtailed.

This is not about the exchange of views, its about the imposition of Islamic values and views, which are decidedly and unapologetically unfree, anti-freedom, on unwilling and unsympathetic secular democratic and free societies.

If it was all just talk, nobody would care. But it is daily atrocities, daily demands of curtailment of freedoms, daily demands for the acceptance of customs and norms that are anti-free, anti-secular, anti-democratic. Islamist views do not represent an improvement on any aspect of life, anywhere and most certainly not in free, democratic secular Western societies.

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« Last Edit: Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 9:18am by Frank »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #97 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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moses

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #98 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 1:54pm

gandalf wrote:
Quote:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

I take it your referring to muslims who want to over throw peaceful secular democracies.

If so can we have some details about how muslims intend to achieve this peacefully?

Give some details of what they believe secular democracies should be replaced with.

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Sir James

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #99 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

No its not a serious a question at all its a ridiculous question.

Lets face it we are talking about so called moderate muslims here. Speak what you mean instead of the usual.... We all know what you mean.

Lets see, a moderate muslim, what is that : -

- Someone who believes the qur'an is a holy book and the word of god.

- Someone who believes mohammed is the perfect example of a muslim.

- Someone who believes in destroying secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and rejects violence.

Yet this very same person believes a book is actually from a god that tells every believer to commit terrorist acts and violence and atrocities against non believers.

Now that's a bit ironic and hypocritical. That cannot be refuted by the way as they are not allowed to change what the qur'an says since it was written in medieval times. Their god said so.

Is this the same moderate muslim that rejects violence, yet calls it holy in the next breath. Surely not.

Truly astounding is the non existent "moderate muslim" yet they are rolled out in wheelchairs by the dozen every time crying, hard done by, yet they believe this shyte.

So we must be talking about non -muslims who want to want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence.

Do you mean the greens ?

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« Last Edit: Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:28pm by Sir James »

matty = muslim with a mat collection, invented by the intellectual giants with an IQ of 81 or below. Yeah its such a gotcha , I know. Roll Eyes

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95210 Gender:	Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia Reply #100 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 2:31pm How do you feel about the democratic freedom to be a Muslim, James? I’m.curious.
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Frank

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #101 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully?

I can't think of an example.

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Karnal

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #102 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 6:24pm

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully?

I can't think of an example.

Deport them.

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Frank

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #103 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 6:47pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 6:24pm:

Frank wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

OK, so your view is that people who engage in violence in order to destroy secular democratic freedoms should have their freedoms taken away? I agree.

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

Who wants to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully?

I can't think of an example.

Deport them.

Deport who? The peaceful detroyers of secular democratic freedoms? WHO are they?

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Not so 'moderate' Muslims - and Western inertia
Reply #104 - Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 8:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

But what about people who want to destroy secular democratic freedoms peacefully, and reject violence? Should they have their freedom to advocate the peaceful dismantling of freedoms protected?

Its a serious question.

The 70 Islamist groups in Canada who tried to criminalise criticism of Islam in Parliament were peacefully trying to dismantle secular freedoms, they were obviously trying to implement Islamic blasphemy laws that go against our freedoms.

If they can convince the leftist do gooders this is a good thing then perhaps we can have public executions of blasphemers against Islam in Martin Place where they have their heads chopped off like Saudi Arabia or hung from a crane like Iran does.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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