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Charged for defending your own home (Read 34778 times)
longweekend58
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #120 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 7:58am
 
BigOl64 wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 4:24pm:
If someone breaks into your house the first thing you are going to need is a law degree to give you a sound understanding of the law surround 'self defence'. Then of course you will need a range of potential self defence weapons and fighting skills so you don't use any more force than is necessary.

See if you accidentally kill a thieving scum-bag, you will find yourself in a world of hurt, thanks to the brave men and women who weren't there to help you in the first place.

Once someone seeks to illegally  enter your home with ill intent, then you should have the right to put them down without repercussions or recourse.





the law of self-defence is pretty basic. You are entitled to defend yourself to the level of the attack you received.  if someone shoves you to the ground you are not entitled to them shoot him.  it sounds like the two guys got carried away and beat him up well past the level of self-defence.

its not rocket science.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #121 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:00am
 
GordyL wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:23pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:14pm:
red baron wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 6:19pm:
If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink


This, from an ex-cop.

And then, some numbskull supports him.

Jesus - what's wrong with you people?



An intruder enters a home where a family is sleeping and the adult in the house is not trained or confident in combat. When they encounter the intruder in the dark pure fear takes over and they over react and kill him. Lights go on and discover he is unarmed.

Is it immoral to place a weapon in the intruders hand?



immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid.  so yes.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #122 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:02am
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:37pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:31pm:
Lionel Edriess wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:28pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:14pm:
red baron wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 6:19pm:
If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink


This, from an ex-cop.

And then, some numbskull supports him.

Jesus - what's wrong with you people?



Never had to defend yourself on your home ground, eh, greggery?

When it becomes a situation where it's hurt or be hurt, 'tis better to have what you need rather than need more than you have.

Simples!




Is English your first language?

Or, are you simply an illiterate fool?

"Hurt or be hurt"?

Read it again, Einstein:

"you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold".

https://secure.static.tumblr.com/733a4a06f6131ee4c92e314aa05dadce/m6aofjc/v57nnf...


It would help if you could distinguish between a comment and a statement. English Lit. 101, eh?

If he's out cold, bring on the zip ties and call the coppers.

If he don't wake up, like in the scenario being discussed, where do you go from there?

Better to salt the scene, eh?





how dumb are you?  corrupting the crime scene will ensure a stay in jail for that alone and render your claim to self-defence, invalid.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Gnads
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #123 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:11am
 
mothra wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:51pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:49pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:23pm:
Karnal wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:19pm:
Ladies, bring a plate.




I refuse unless the men bring one too.

Equality, innit.

Whose washing up is what I want to know.


Those who cook, those who bring the plate, those who earn the money for the food on the plate?


Equality, innit? Where does it start, where does it end.





When all is equal


Who & what determines that?
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #124 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:11am
 
ian wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:00pm:
mothra wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 10:55pm:
ian wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 10:50pm:
I can guess. i would rather you explained your point.




It's not difficult Ian.

You said you would stab an unarmed person. You would then "lie and fabricate" about your actions to avoid consequences.

I'm saying you don't need to "lie and fabricate" if you don't kill an unarmed person.

Did you really need that explained to you?
What arent you understanding? The intruders life is forfeit.. The fact they were armed or unarmed is irrelevant. Im not going to jail. Im posting via a proxy here so Im being quite candid.



Quite the bloodlust there...  You are just salivating over the opportunity to kill someone.

Imagine however that the 'intruder' is in fact someone who mistook your house for where they were going.  drunk, wrong address or whatever.

would you kill them?  because you would get a life sentence for that.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #125 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:16am
 
Mortdooley wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:19pm:
SMH needs to have a comments section after stories like this. I have read Sydney Morning Herald online occasionally since the 2000 Olympics and the lack of a comments section after an unfavorable opinion story led me here.

The Sheep need to be reminded from time to time that they are Sheep, persecuting this one individual for trying to defend what is his is an example for all. He should have gotten as many family members as possible out of the house or cowered with them in a bedroom. After the tradesman has finished collecting valuables he will leave and all is well again. And I thought I lived in bizarro world!


http://lawnewz.com/crazy/woman-kills-home-intruder-and-media-actually-outraged-a...

54-year-old Gwendolyn Jenrette shot and killed a 17-year-old teen that broke into her Liberty City home on Thursday and now the teen’s family members are calling for the state’s attorney to file charges against the woman.  What’s more, The Washington Post is using the incident to criticize Florida’s homeowner protection laws.

Jenrette raced home last Thursday after she received an alert from a security system company that there was a possible break-in at her home.  Police were also alerted and dispatched to the home, however, Janrette arrived and found 17-year-old Trevon Johnson climbing out of a window.  According to investigators, there was then a confrontation between Johnson and Jenrette and police officers responding to the scene heard at least one gunshot.  They immediately entered the backyard and found Johnson on the ground bleeding from an apparent gunshot wound.  He was immediately transported to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead later that evening.

Jenrette was taken to the police station and interviewed while other investigators stayed behind at the home to collect evidence.  Authorities described her as “a little distraught” by the events but said she was otherwise cooperating with the investigation.

Enter Michael E. Miller with the Washington Post, who picked up on the story for an article this morning in which he laments about the difficulty some states have in prosecuting homeowners that dare to defend their homes from intruders.

The Post highlights several comments critical of Janrette made by Johnson’s family members to local news reporters in the aftermath of the shooting and described them as “an impassioned claims that the teenager deserved justice, despite the circumstances of his death.”

The newspaper even goes so far as to highlight a comment from Johnson’s cousin that seems to blame Janrette for failing to recognize that maybe Johnson didn’t have another way to get money school clothes.


“You have to look at it from every child’s point of view that was raised in the hood,” Johnson cousin Naukita Harris said. “You have to understand… how he gonna get his money to have clothes to go to school? You have to look at it from his point-of-view.”


However, what really gets at the Post is that Florida law provides “some of the staunchest protections in the country” for those seeking to protect their home intruders.

    “A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony,” according to state law. “A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.”

The Post goes on to note that in Florida “anybody who ‘unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.’”

It will ultimately be up to the state’s attorney to decide whether charges are justified in this case.  However, as noted above, Florida homeowners are essentially presumed to be lawfully acting in self-defense if they have to shoot an intruder trying to break into to their home.  As a result, Janrette is unlikely to be charged with a crime in this case.  Furthermore, given the circumstance of this case, a strong argument could be made that she would not be charged even in state’s with lesser homeowner protections than Florida.

Bottom line, critics would be wise to pick another incident to hold up as example of alleged injustice that results from Florida’s homeowners protection laws.


he was climbing OUT the window. So how did he constitute a threat of any kind?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Gnads
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #126 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:20am
 
There is no defence for a perfect stranger to be in someones house uninvited, entering by breaking in.

What happens to them is as a result of their own stupid actions.

No sympathy.

Most of the cases of "home invasion" that have been in the media of late have had the perpetrators armed & occupants have been injured/wounded.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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GordyL
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #127 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:30am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:00am:
GordyL wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:23pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:14pm:
red baron wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 6:19pm:
If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink


This, from an ex-cop.

And then, some numbskull supports him.

Jesus - what's wrong with you people?



An intruder enters a home where a family is sleeping and the adult in the house is not trained or confident in combat. When they encounter the intruder in the dark pure fear takes over and they over react and kill him. Lights go on and discover he is unarmed.

Is it immoral to place a weapon in the intruders hand?



immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid.  so yes.


So there's a dead intruder on the ground.
Your children will be raised in foster care for 10 years.
You'd hold you head high and cop the 10 years?


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Bobby.
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #128 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:34am
 
You can defend yourself & your loved ones as long as
the force used is "reasonable".

That would be decided by a court if you're charged with anything.
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GordyL
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #129 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:37am
 
More about the dead guy.

He had served more than 20 months before the Court of Criminal Appeal ruled his convictions should be quashed due to errors made by the trial judge.

Mr Slater had been convicted of a ram raid at Sandgate adult store Nauti & Nice in November, 2012, in which cash and a quantity of synthetic drugs were stolen. 

He was acquitted on appeal and released from custody after the Crown conceded a number of errors were made in the trial, including the use of CCTV footage.

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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #130 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:47am
 
red baron wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 6:19pm:
If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink


Crime Scene Investigation has come a long way since you were in 'the job', and staging a scene by providing your own evidence such as a "knife" will ensure that your defence has very little to defend you with if they find out the truth, which they almost certainly will. Far better to rely on your Lawyer than to manufacture evidence.
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longweekend58
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #131 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:48am
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:20am:
There is no defence for a perfect stranger to be in someones house uninvited, entering by breaking in.

What happens to them is as a result of their own stupid actions.

No sympathy.

Most of the cases of "home invasion" that have been in the media of late have had the perpetrators armed & occupants have been injured/wounded.




there is no defence for someone to punch me in the street either. doesnt mean I am then entitled to execute them.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #132 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:50am
 
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:47am:
red baron wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 6:19pm:
If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink


Crime Scene Investigation has come a long way since you were in 'the job', and staging a scene by providing your own evidence such as a "knife" will ensure that your defence has very little to defend you with if they find out the truth, which they almost certainly will. Far better to rely on your Lawyer than to manufacture evidence.



Yes  about one minute under a microscope will show
that the knife was sharpened with the same stone or steel
used on all your other knives.  i.e.

it was your knife.

It's a silly idea to manufacture "evidence"
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GordyL
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #133 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:50am
 
Fuzzball wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:47am:
red baron wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 6:19pm:
If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink


Crime Scene Investigation has come a long way since you were in 'the job', and staging a scene by providing your own evidence such as a "knife" will ensure that your defence has very little to defend you with if they find out the truth, which they almost certainly will. Far better to rely on your Lawyer than to manufacture evidence.


I agree. I'm too clueless to stage a crime scene, as I imagine most people are.
I'm curious about the moral question of it.



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longweekend58
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Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #134 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:50am
 
GordyL wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:30am:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:00am:
GordyL wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:23pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:14pm:
red baron wrote on Mar 27th, 2016 at 6:19pm:
If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink


This, from an ex-cop.

And then, some numbskull supports him.

Jesus - what's wrong with you people?



An intruder enters a home where a family is sleeping and the adult in the house is not trained or confident in combat. When they encounter the intruder in the dark pure fear takes over and they over react and kill him. Lights go on and discover he is unarmed.

Is it immoral to place a weapon in the intruders hand?



immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid.  so yes.


So there's a dead intruder on the ground.
Your children will be raised in foster care for 10 years.
You'd hold you head high and cop the 10 years?





A) you are not clever enough to fake the evidence especially since it was not planned. You will be caught and go to jail for a long time
B) reasonable self-defence does not mean killing someone unless they are intent on killing or seriously injuring you. most burglars when confronted... RUN.


your morals and ethics appear to be... well... missing.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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