Australian Politics Forum - Charged for defending your own home

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #135 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:52am

GordyL wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:37am:

More about the dead guy.

He had served more than 20 months before the Court of Criminal Appeal ruled his convictions should be quashed due to errors made by the trial judge.

Mr Slater had been convicted of a ram raid at Sandgate adult store Nauti & Nice in November, 2012, in which cash and a quantity of synthetic drugs were stolen.

He was acquitted on appeal and released from custody after the Crown conceded a number of errors were made in the trial, including the use of CCTV footage.

he sounds like someone who was going to get killed eventually anyhow. HOWEVER (and its a biggie) that in no way excuses killing a burglar who did not intend to kill or harm the inhabitants. note the idiot had no convictions for violence.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #136 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:54am

GordyL wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:50am:

Fuzzball wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:47am:

red baron wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink

Crime Scene Investigation has come a long way since you were in 'the job', and staging a scene by providing your own evidence such as a "knife" will ensure that your defence has very little to defend you with if they find out the truth, which they almost certainly will. Far better to rely on your Lawyer than to manufacture evidence.

I agree. I'm too clueless to stage a crime scene, as I imagine most people are.
I'm curious about the moral question of it.

Im more curious about how you can be curious about the morality of faking evidence to cover-up your own crime.

some moral and ethical questions can be debatable... this is not one of them

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

GordyL

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4365
Hate Town
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #137 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:58am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:50am:

GordyL wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:30am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:00am:

GordyL wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:14pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink

This, from an ex-cop.

And then, some numbskull supports him.

Jesus - what's wrong with you people?

An intruder enters a home where a family is sleeping and the adult in the house is not trained or confident in combat. When they encounter the intruder in the dark pure fear takes over and they over react and kill him. Lights go on and discover he is unarmed.

Is it immoral to place a weapon in the intruders hand?

immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid. so yes.

So there's a dead intruder on the ground.
Your children will be raised in foster care for 10 years.
You'd hold you head high and cop the 10 years?

A) you are not clever enough to fake the evidence especially since it was not planned. You will be caught and go to jail for a long time
B) reasonable self-defence does not mean killing someone unless they are intent on killing or seriously injuring you. most burglars when confronted... RUN.
your morals and ethics appear to be... well... missing.

What you're saying is that all people will react calmly and proportionally which is unreasonable.

Someone who's trained would be able to dial up the response exactly enough to meet the threat.

Someone who's never had a fight in their life may sh!t themselves and over react.

If someone walks into my house at 3am in the morning and I clock him once with the 3/4 baseball bat which lives behind my door and he dies, I'm not going to jail.

The latest update on the story is the dead guy was placed in a headlock on the street.

That is why the guy was arrested.

Back to top

On the Ning Nang Nong
Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30084
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #138 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:03am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:48am:

Gnads wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:20am:

There is no defence for a perfect stranger to be in someones house uninvited, entering by breaking in.

What happens to them is as a result of their own stupid actions.

No sympathy.

Most of the cases of "home invasion" that have been in the media of late have had the perpetrators armed & occupants have been injured/wounded.

there is no defence for someone to punch me in the street either. doesnt mean I am then entitled to execute them.

There is a vast difference between you getting dropped in the street for being a t/wat

than someone being in your home uninvited with criminal intent.

And I didn't say anything about execution.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

AiA

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 18405
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #139 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:03am

There is something immoral about a legal system that does not allow a homeowner to defend against an invasion.

Are there circumstances where a homeowner could face charges? Absolutely. Shooting a fleeing invader in the back could be one, but the sentence, I think, should be light. People panic when threatened. Not everyone is a cool, calm hero like some members of OzPol.

Back to top

“Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie … if you believe it.” George Costanza

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139711
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #140 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:05am

GordyL wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:30am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:00am:

GordyL wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:14pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink

This, from an ex-cop.

And then, some numbskull supports him.

Jesus - what's wrong with you people?

An intruder enters a home where a family is sleeping and the adult in the house is not trained or confident in combat. When they encounter the intruder in the dark pure fear takes over and they over react and kill him. Lights go on and discover he is unarmed.

Is it immoral to place a weapon in the intruders hand?

immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid. so yes.

So there's a dead intruder on the ground.
Your children will be raised in foster care for 10 years.
You'd hold you head high and cop the 10 years?

"immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid"

Back to top

IP Logged

GordyL

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4365
Hate Town
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #141 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:06am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:54am:

GordyL wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:50am:

Fuzzball wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:47am:

red baron wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink

Crime Scene Investigation has come a long way since you were in 'the job', and staging a scene by providing your own evidence such as a "knife" will ensure that your defence has very little to defend you with if they find out the truth, which they almost certainly will. Far better to rely on your Lawyer than to manufacture evidence.

I agree. I'm too clueless to stage a crime scene, as I imagine most people are.
I'm curious about the moral question of it.

Im more curious about how you can be curious about the morality of faking evidence to cover-up your own crime.

some moral and ethical questions can be debatable... this is not one of them

Interesting how you've said 'my crime' when I'm posing this as a thought experiment.

Back to top

On the Ning Nang Nong
Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!

IP Logged

Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30084 Gender:	Re: Charged for defending your own home Reply #142 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:06am >>>>
Back to top	"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais IP Logged

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139711 Gender:	Re: Charged for defending your own home Reply #143 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:07am AiA wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:03am: There is something immoral about a legal system that does not allow a homeowner to defend against an invasion. Home owners can defend themselves.
Back to top	IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30084
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #144 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:08am

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:05am:

GordyL wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:30am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:00am:

GordyL wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:14pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink

This, from an ex-cop.

And then, some numbskull supports him.

Jesus - what's wrong with you people?

An intruder enters a home where a family is sleeping and the adult in the house is not trained or confident in combat. When they encounter the intruder in the dark pure fear takes over and they over react and kill him. Lights go on and discover he is unarmed.

Is it immoral to place a weapon in the intruders hand?

immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid. so yes.

So there's a dead intruder on the ground.
Your children will be raised in foster care for 10 years.
You'd hold you head high and cop the 10 years?

"immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid"

Copy, paste & selective editing dolt

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #145 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:09am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:34am:

You can defend yourself & your loved ones as long as
the force used is "reasonable".

That would be decided by a court if you're charged with anything.

I remember s hop keeper who was robbed over and over again by this one person.. he had a video store...he caught the guy red handed and tied him up... the shop keeper was charged.,..with assault and the guy threatened to sue him....I dont know if he ever did..

but our laws have gone stark raving mad..

I mean think of the trauma to you if you killed someone??? you would never get over it....and then to be charged with murder???......like your a common criminal seems to me extreme....

the dead guy cannot be charged with his crime ...

that had he not committed the crime in the first place.. he wouldnt be dead would he???>..

Back to top

IP Logged

GordyL

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4365
Hate Town
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #146 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:09am

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:05am:

GordyL wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:30am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:00am:

GordyL wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:23pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 7:14pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 27^th, 2016 at 6:19pm:

If you encounter an intruder and if you have a massive fight in which you come out on top and the intruder on his back out cold. Just make sure you don't overlook 'that knife' in the intruder's hand which is in situ before you call the cavalry in. And make sure your prints aren't all over 'that intruder's' knife hey? Wink

This, from an ex-cop.

And then, some numbskull supports him.

Jesus - what's wrong with you people?

An intruder enters a home where a family is sleeping and the adult in the house is not trained or confident in combat. When they encounter the intruder in the dark pure fear takes over and they over react and kill him. Lights go on and discover he is unarmed.

Is it immoral to place a weapon in the intruders hand?

immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid. so yes.

So there's a dead intruder on the ground.
Your children will be raised in foster care for 10 years.
You'd hold you head high and cop the 10 years?

"immoral, unethical, criminal and utterly stupid"

I agree with the last three characterizations, but it could be argued that doing what's required to stay out of jail is an extension of the self defense that put you in that situation in the first place.

Back to top

On the Ning Nang Nong
Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!

IP Logged

Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 48250 Gender:	Re: Charged for defending your own home Reply #147 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:22am greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:07am: Home owners can defend themselves. Apologist.
Back to top	Estragon: I can’t go on like this. Vladimir: That’s what you think. IP Logged

GordyL

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4365
Hate Town
Gender: male

Re: Charged for defending your own home
Reply #148 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:24am

This is truly going to be a fascinating case.

Mr Slater was only out of jail because of trail errors made by the judge of his previous crime.

Mr Slater was released from jail in December after successfully appealing against a four-year jail term for aggravated break and enter and fraud offences.
He had served more than 20 months before the Court of Criminal Appeal ruled his convictions should be quashed due to
errors made by the trial judge
.

And he walked on a PREVIOUS offense due to prosecution errors.

Mr Slater had been convicted of a ram raid at Sandgate adult store Nauti & Nice in November, 2012, in which cash and a quantity of synthetic drugs were stolen.
He was acquitted on appeal and released from custody after the
Crown conceded a number of errors were made in the trial, including the use of CCTV footage
.

So this guy is only on the street because of the incompetence of the judge and prosecutors, and now they're throwing a Big Mac with the lot at one of his victims.

Back to top

On the Ning Nang Nong
Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!

IP Logged

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75238 Gender:	Re: Charged for defending your own home Reply #149 - Mar 28^th, 2016 at 9:25am longweekend58 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2016 at 8:02am: and render your claim to self-defence, invalid. may make your claim less believable, but I doubt it makes it invalid
Back to top	Our esteemed leader: I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus. IP Logged