polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 10:58am:



Nowadays everyone who wants national sovereignty, democracy, rule of law is 'far right'.
Howard and Abbott were called 'far right', anyone who doesn't want to go along with the Merkel plan is called 'far right', anyone who doesn't want illegal immigration is called 'far right'.

There is no 'rising far right' in Europe or anywhere else. People who put their own nation first within their borders are not 'far right'. The 'far right' talk is just double speak.

moses wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 5:39pm:


You've got FD's attention, Moses. It would be good if you could put this in the form of a question.

Sometimes a question is just a question, after all.

Quote:


I am watching it with interest. At the moment I am more concerned about Muslims slaughtering people in the streets. I am actually surprised they have been so restrained. Sooner or later the reactionaries are going to start returning fire, and it will all go downhill from there.

Either that or the self-identified Islamic reformers will step up to the plate. You never know.

Always the victims...

Can you imagine how they are going to respond if the far right extremists start wandering into the Muslim ghettos with machine guns?

GordyL wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2016 at 6:32pm:


Gandalf is very similar to Greg. He doesn't actually address the serious issue of Islamisation in the west - well, for him it's not an issue - he'd rather look for some little word or point in what you say and then try and spin the discussion off into another direction.

Here you made the very "western" mistake of saying "I might be wrong" You must never do that when talking to a muslim. You must keep reminding them they are an undesirable minority and that's the way it's going to stay.
If they don't like that they can leave. We might even pay for their ticket.

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 2:31pm:


I address it all the time - its just that you don't like the way I address it.

Unlike the "ban them, deport them, kill them" brigade that somehow FD miraculously has never seen here, I see the issue of extremism/Islamisation in the west as one of alienation, which can only be resolved by community consultation, collaboration, development and education. The problem is not Islam - we know this because the evidence demonstrates conclusively that mainstream Islamic institutions including mosques and schools reduce extremism, not promote it: extremists invariably turn out to have avoided mainstream Islamic institutions, and instead were radicalised by 'back-street Imams' - with no recognised qualifications and shunned by mainstream Islamic bodies. Data from the UK, the US and anecdotally from Australia clearly demonstrates this. So my solution (and cue cries of derision) is to bring western muslims into mainstream Islam, not out of it - and give mainstream Islamic institutions the support and encouragement they need to facilitate this.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 3:51pm:



The difficulty is that nobody can tell the difference between mainstream and radicalised Muslims until after someone is killed or injured. 

That's the problem. And as Trump suggests, it would be good to be able to figure out how to tell them apart - and stop them coming until we can figure out.

WHat is outrageous is not what Trump said but that we still can't tell the mainstream from the radicals among us, 15 years after 9/11.  I don't think we would continue to allow in, say, members of the Red Brigades, or Pol Potistas or KKKs any other religio-political group with solid terroris credentials just because they haven't killed anyone yet and may be just quiet supporters or quiet frawners even, but still, not denouncers of the ideology.

Just as Muslims do not separate politics (their 'complete Islamic way of life') from religion, nobody else sees Islam as merely a religion but also as a political force. A fractured and in-fighting and ever-shape shifting political force.

BigOl64 wrote on Apr 6^th, 2016 at 4:10pm:


You've been waiting for this moment for quite some time, no?