Australian Politics Forum - don't mention Islam

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #210 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 12:16pm

GordyL wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:26am:

So just imagine if she had a twin sister who had a really bad case of the Allah virus, and I found the ideas inside her brain so repugnant I could not stand to be in the same room as her.

Would that make me Islamophobic, racist?

No.

Racists don't judge people after getting to know their ideas and behaviours - to do so would be rational. Racism by definition is irrational. A racist judges someone to be inferior/undesirable/'bad' by default because of their outward appearance alone. In fact I would go further and say that racists/Islamophobes go out of their way to avoid understanding the specific ideas and behaviour of 'the other'. They prefer to put words into their mouths for them - based on well-worn stereotypes.

Racism/Islamophobia is not just ignorance of the other - its very commonly willful ignorance.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

mothra

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35346
Gender: female

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #211 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:33am:

Quote:

I said i have known many Muslims and spoken to many Muslim feminists, FD.

You also claimed to be able to tell what the world's Muslims are thinking based on them refraining from hacking their neighbours' heads off on a daily basis. Or do I have you confused with someone else?

Quote:

It's a little more involved than an "I know a feminist Muslim" approach.

Have you asked them their opinion on anything? If so, what? Or did you discover their political views through some kind of osmotic process like the other apologists we have here?

Quote:

As for where you are wrong on Mohammed, it has been pointed out to you many, many times but you seem reluctant to concede. I posted up a very esteemed documentary about Mohammed and Women for your edification. It appears you did not watch it?

Correct. And yes I am reluctant to concede based on the feeble counter-arguments that have been produced so far. You are not exactly helping there.

Quote:

As for your link to one of Herbie's threads, you can't honestly expect me to take that seriously, can you? You're going to need to do better than that FD.

Of course you won't take it seriously. People asked Muslims their opinion in a systematic manner and published the results. After all, you once met a lesbian Muslim at your local communist party meeting. You know what Muslims think, and asking them just confuses the issue. You cannot tell me what they think, or what you discussed with them, because that would confuse the issue also. The best you can do is mumble that they have a peaceful interpretation of Muhammed's head hacking.

I suggest you spend less time putting sensationalist words into my mouth (is that the only way you feel you can win an argument?) and more time watching the documentary i posted for you.

You would look less churlish.

... and foolish.

Back to top

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48864 At my desk.	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #212 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm No thanks. Video evidence is for people who cannot string a coherent sentence together. Do you have any real evidence, or just some learned gentleman in a suit regurgitating the same BS that you carry on with? Or better yet, before we get to evidence, perhaps you can reveal what it is you disagree with me on and why?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95446
Gender: male

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #213 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:25pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

No thanks. Video evidence is for people who cannot string a coherent sentence together.

Do you have any real evidence, or just some learned gentleman in a suit regurgitating the same BS that you carry on with? Or better yet, before we get to evidence, perhaps you can reveal what it is you disagree with me on and why?

Are you a racist, FD? You refuse to answer this.

Is there any reason why?

Back to top

IP Logged

mothra

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35346
Gender: female

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #214 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

No thanks. Video evidence is for people who cannot string a coherent sentence together.

Do you have any real evidence, or just some learned gentleman in a suit regurgitating the same BS that you carry on with? Or better yet, before we get to evidence, perhaps you can reveal what it is you disagree with me on and why?

The documentary is a series of interviews with highly esteemed scholars FD.

Are you ever not ridiculously and needlessly inflammatory when you communicate? It's exceedingly tiresome.

You are wrong on you estimation of Mohammed's treatment of women. I have provided evidence to this end which you have not addressed ... because it conflicts with your prejudice.

And prejudiced you are indeed.

Back to top

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45390
Gender: male

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #215 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:30pm

Belgian government official Yves Goldstein considers recent developments:

“Our cities are facing a huge problem, maybe the largest since World War II,” Mr. Goldstein said. “How is it that people who were born here in Brussels, in Paris, can call heroes the people who commit violence and terror? That is the real question we’re facing.”

Friends who teach the equivalent of high school seniors in the predominantly Muslim districts of Molenbeek and Schaerbeek told him that “90 percent of their students, 17, 18 years old, called them heroes,” he said.
But despite all of that:

The problem is not Islam, he insists …

It never is. Whatever the problem may be, Goldstein believes it can be cured – as Breitbart London notes – by greater exposure to Andy Warhol:

“These young people will never go to museums until 18 or 20 – they never saw Chagall, they never saw Dalí, they never saw Warhol, they don’t know what it is to dream,” Mr. Goldstein said.

Cheesy

The good Belgian Mr Yves Goldstein is gandalf, Mothra, John Smith, Karnal, and all the other 'the problem is not Islam, it never is' crowd here and across the globe.

Yves Godstein - it's not a joke, unfortunately.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95446 Gender:	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #216 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:32pm What’s the matter, FD? Cat got your tongue?
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48864
At my desk.

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #217 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:51pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

No thanks. Video evidence is for people who cannot string a coherent sentence together.

Do you have any real evidence, or just some learned gentleman in a suit regurgitating the same BS that you carry on with? Or better yet, before we get to evidence, perhaps you can reveal what it is you disagree with me on and why?

The documentary is a series of interviews with highly esteemed scholars FD.

Are you ever not ridiculously and needlessly inflammatory when you communicate? It's exceedingly tiresome.

You are wrong on you estimation of Mohammed's treatment of women. I have provided evidence to this end which you have not addressed ... because it conflicts with your prejudice.

And prejudiced you are indeed.

Muhammed once beat his favourite child bride Aisha for leaving the house without permission. This is the same one he had sex with when she was 9 years old. He was over 50 at the time.

On another occasion a woman came to Muhammed for help because her husband was beating her. She was bruised so badly her skin had turned green. Guess what Muhammed did to show the Muslims how to respect women?

Muhammed turned sex slavery into an empire building industry.

If your series of youtube videos were any help to you in countering these criticisms, you would be able to put your own thoughts into words rather than demanding I waste my time watching whatever dribble you recommend.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

mothra

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35346
Gender: female

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #218 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:58pm

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:51pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

No thanks. Video evidence is for people who cannot string a coherent sentence together.

Do you have any real evidence, or just some learned gentleman in a suit regurgitating the same BS that you carry on with? Or better yet, before we get to evidence, perhaps you can reveal what it is you disagree with me on and why?

The documentary is a series of interviews with highly esteemed scholars FD.

Are you ever not ridiculously and needlessly inflammatory when you communicate? It's exceedingly tiresome.

You are wrong on you estimation of Mohammed's treatment of women. I have provided evidence to this end which you have not addressed ... because it conflicts with your prejudice.

And prejudiced you are indeed.

Muhammed once beat his favourite child bride Aisha for leaving the house without permission. This is the same one he had sex with when she was 9 years old. He was over 50 at the time.

On another occasion a woman came to Muhammed for help because her husband was beating her. She was bruised so badly her skin had turned green. Guess what Muhammed did to show the Muslims how to respect women?

Muhammed turned sex slavery into an empire building industry.

If your series of youtube videos were any help to you in countering these criticisms, you would be able to put your own thoughts into words rather than demanding I waste my time watching whatever dribble you recommend.

Aisha reports: ”Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) did not hit Anything with his hands, besides the time when he made Jihaad in the Path of Allah. He did not hit a servant nor a woman (wife, girl etc.)”. [Shamaail‐e‐Tirmidhi (331) Hadith Number 6.]

https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/12/23/refuting-the-allegation-that-muhammed-...

Where do you get your "facts" from FD?

Back to top

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45390
Gender: male

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #219 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:01pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:26pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 6:21pm:

No thanks. Video evidence is for people who cannot string a coherent sentence together.

Do you have any real evidence, or just some learned gentleman in a suit regurgitating the same BS that you carry on with? Or better yet, before we get to evidence, perhaps you can reveal what it is you disagree with me on and why?

The documentary is a series of interviews with highly esteemed scholars FD.

Are you ever not ridiculously and needlessly inflammatory when you communicate? It's exceedingly tiresome.

You are wrong on you estimation of Mohammed's treatment of women. I have provided evidence to this end which you have not addressed ... because it conflicts with your prejudice.

And prejudiced you are indeed.

It is dreadful to see women like you standing up not for women but for institutionalised, god and prophet sanctioned misogyny.

We've lived through a hundred years of female emancipation and liberation and now we have the mayors of towns in Germany and in Sweden and in other parts of Northern Europe telling women not to walk out after dark on their own. And in the wake of the Cologne sex attacks, we had the mayor of that city telling women they really ought to dress differently and behave differently in public. That Simon, is what is sad, and I find the sheer hypocrisy of those of you who said you were going to defend female rights when actually you think migrant rights are more important than female rights in our community. Frankly, shame on you.

Yes, shame on you Mothra. Shame.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:07pm by Frank »

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35346 Gender:	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #220 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims". Ignorance is really no excuse.
Back to top	If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning. IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45390
Gender: male

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #221 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:16pm

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims".

Ignorance is really no excuse.

In Islamic societies there is no such thing as women's choice.
Shame on you for siding with the 'men are worth two women' Muslim crowd, Mother.

You'd rather throw the sisters under the Islamic bus than to 'seem' wacist.

Stupid and shameful. You need to start to think for yourself.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

mothra

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 35346
Gender: female

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #222 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:21pm

Frank wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:16pm:

mothra wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Shame on you Frank, for dismissing the active life choices of over a billion of women and relegating them all to "victims".

Ignorance is really no excuse.

In Islamic societies there is no such thing as women's choice.
Shame on you for siding with the 'men are worth two women' Muslim crowd, Mother.

You'd rather throw the sisters under the Islamic bus than to 'seem' wacist.

Stupid and shameful. You need to start to think for yourself.

Utter ignorance.

You are dismissing hundreds of thousands of strong, intelligent, powerful women. And you cry sexism whilst doing it.

Irony much.

Back to top

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48864
At my desk.

Re: don't mention Islam
Reply #223 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:22pm

Quote:

Where do you get your "facts" from FD?

Let's start with your own link, shall we?

Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was ‘A’isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi’. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O ‘A’isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi’ (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2127)

Your article insists that this translation is 'wrong'. It insists that instead of 'hit' it should be translated as 'pushed away'. For some reason it does not give the entire alternative translation. See if you can figure out why. This is what it would presumably look like:

He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He pushed away on my chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?

Even Gandalf concedes this one, but instead insists that he beat her because he loves her and did not want her wandering the streets at night.

Trying pulling this one down at the local women's shelter and see how far you get.

Your article goes on to do the same trick in a case where another man beat Aisha:

Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to towards me and struck me violently with his fist and said, “You have detained the people because of your necklace.” But I remained motionless as if I was dead lest I should awake Allah’s Apostle although that hit was very painful.

In this case, he attempts to argue it should be translated as "poked" her violently with his fist .... that "poke" was very painful.

Are you convinced by this Mothra?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35346 Gender:	Re: don't mention Islam Reply #224 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 7:28pm So Mohammed pushed her in the chest? Bit of a far cry from a beating isn't it FD? And it was Abu Bakr that "came to towards me (her)and struck me(her) violently with his fist" . Why did you feel the need to highlight that? Didn't read it properly?
Back to top	If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning. IP Logged