Australian Politics Forum - When is a religion a cult?

Sir James

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #120 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 9:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:10pm:

cases of someone trying to kill him that even google struggles with

No, you are the one struggling FD.

google: "muhammad assassination attempt quraysh"

tell me what is the very first hit FD.

Pretty tricky this google thing eh?

Even trickier is when the reader assumes they are reading facts when in fact they are just reading a story that has absolutely no basis in fact. Its only basis is one book written by someone. NO external facts at all on REAL historical events. Just muslims screaming its all true.

Whether it be mohammed poking a blind man in the eye before he went to medina or he did 5 handstands, raped a mule and bashed an old lady before he went.

The only books telling this tale aren't historical books they are just muslim story books not based on any facts at all as there are NO HISTORICAL FACTS.

So long as the reader realizes they are just discussing fiction sure we can nit pic the texts of the story book but NOT REAL history. We can google our asses off till the muslim god HUBAL shines bright.

The assassination attempt sounds riveting, did it happen in reality probably not as there is not one shred of evidence to indicate it did.

Cool story to argue over tho.

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matty = muslim with a mat collection, invented by the intellectual giants with an IQ of 81 or below. Yeah its such a gotcha , I know. Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #121 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:28am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:17pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:10pm:

cases of someone trying to kill him that even google struggles with

No, you are the one struggling FD.

google: "muhammad assassination attempt quraysh"

tell me what is the very first hit FD.

Pretty tricky this google thing eh?

I have already done this once Gandalf, and gave you a very detailed description of the results I got.

It is your claim. You back it up. Otherwise people might think you have been taking debating lessons from Gweg.

Given that Muhammed getting booted from Mecca is such a critical part of the birth of Islam, don't you think it is strange that all the details are lost to history? This is the one chance the Muslims have of painting Muhammed as a real victim rather than merely trying to excuse his various atrocities with "they attacked first, about a decade ago, on a completely different scale and in a completely different context, just take our word for it."

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:38am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #122 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:37am Its my claim that there was an assassination attempt on Muhammad? Really?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49439 At my desk.	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #123 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:39am Are you asking me what your opinion is?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #124 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:45am

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:28am:

Given that Muhammed getting booted from Mecca is such a critical part of the birth of Islam, don't you think it is strange that all the details are lost to history?

They are not lost to history. The only thing lost here is you.

Suggest you take the effort to read some actual history, rather than play this pathetic "nuffin to see here" game. Islamic doctrine itself has a huge amount of detail about the persecution in Mecca including the exodus - both Quranic and Hadeethic. So where you get this idea that the "details are lost to history" is anyone's guess.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #125 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:47am freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:39am: Are you asking me what your opinion is? I'm asking what you are saying is my claim - because its definitely not the assassination claim.
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freediver

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #126 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 8:22am

Quote:

I'm asking what you are saying is my claim - because its definitely not the assassination claim.

Was this the other Gandalf?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2016 at 5:01am:

Why should I retract it?

Because you are clearly wrong. Muhammad was attacked and forced to flee Mecca - before he attacked any caravan.

Before you launch another 'I'm right because muslims are such hypocrits' rant - can you at least address the basic facts here? Is physical harassment and attacks on his followers and attempted murder on Muhammad himself so as to force them to flee Mecca constitute an "attack"? If not, why not?

By the way, you are also wrong to claim he attacked caravans "years" before the Meccans responded. The first post-exile attack on the muslims was the same year as the caravan raids started.

Anyway, please do carry on lecturing Mothra for her "ignorance" of basic Islamic history.

Who tried to murder him Gandalf?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #127 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 10:07am

Its not my claim FD - its common knowledge.... to everyone it seems except you.

The Quraysh leaders tried to kill Muhammad - a representative of each of the main clans would perform the stabbing to prevent Muhammad's clan exacting revenge (since they would be at war with everyone). When the assassins arrived at Muhammad's house, he had already fled, and found only his companion Ali.

This is just basic Islamic tradition - all in great detail through the ahadith, biographies and Quran.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #128 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 11:10am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 10:07am:

Its not my claim FD - its common knowledge.... to everyone it seems except you.

The Quraysh leaders tried to kill Muhammad - a representative of each of the main clans would perform the stabbing to prevent Muhammad's clan exacting revenge (since they would be at war with everyone). When the assassins arrived at Muhammad's house, he had already fled, and found only his companion Ali.

This is just basic Islamic tradition - all in great detail through the ahadith, biographies and Quran.

True, G, but that's just Muslim victim mentality. Muhammed should have agreed to be murdered and shut up shop. No Islam, no problems. If he'd done that, we wouldn't be in the position we're in now.

This is the version of history FD's going with. He can't provide a source because Google doesn't have anything (in its first three search results), so we need to go with FD on this one.

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2016 at 11:19am by Karnal »

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Sir James

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #129 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 1:35pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:45am:

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 7:28am:

Given that Muhammed getting booted from Mecca is such a critical part of the birth of Islam, don't you think it is strange that all the details are lost to history?

They are not lost to history. The only thing lost here is you.

Suggest you take the effort to read some actual history, rather than play this pathetic "nuffin to see here" game. Islamic doctrine itself has a huge amount of detail about the persecution in Mecca including the exodus - both Quranic and Hadeethic. So where you get this idea that the "details are lost to history" is anyone's guess.

The Quran and Hadeeth are both story books not history.

I suggest you post some actual history instead of quoting muslim story books yet again that history does NOT support.

Surely it can't be that hard.

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matty = muslim with a mat collection, invented by the intellectual giants with an IQ of 81 or below. Yeah its such a gotcha , I know. Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #130 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 3:02pm

Sir James wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 1:35pm:

The Quran and Hadeeth are both story books not history.

I was responding to FD's claim there was no details within Islam about the persecution, attempted assassination and exile.

But if you really are interested in more objective sources matty, try Montgommery Watt or Karren Armstrong. They've written a fair bit about it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Sir James

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #131 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 3:07pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 3:02pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 1:35pm:

The Quran and Hadeeth are both story books not history.

I was responding to FD's claim there was no details within Islam about the persecution, attempted assassination and exile.

But if you really are interested in more objective sources matty, try Montgommery Watt or Karren Armstrong. They've written a fair bit about it.

You mean the islam story. They can write all they like there is no REAL historical evidence of any of the mohammed tale at all period.

I am not matty are you kamal ?

You seem to mattsurbate like he does.

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matty = muslim with a mat collection, invented by the intellectual giants with an IQ of 81 or below. Yeah its such a gotcha , I know. Roll Eyes

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96625	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #132 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 4:28pm Sir James wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 3:07pm: [quote author=gandalf link=1460334257/130#130 date=1460523732] I am not matty are you kamal ? Matty always says this.
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Sir James Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 633 Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #133 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 5:07pm Karnal wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 4:28pm: Sir James wrote on Apr 13^th, 2016 at 3:07pm: [quote author=gandalf link=1460334257/130#130 date=1460523732] I am not matty are you kamal ? Matty always says this. Mattsurbating again dear ? You come across as a typical muslim loon who lashes out when made a fool of..
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Sir James Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 633 Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #134 - Apr 13^th, 2016 at 5:07pm
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