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When is a religion a cult? (Read 14766 times)
Secret Wars
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #60 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:08pm
 
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:59pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:42pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:40pm:
Who says this?  Other Muslims.

Seeing God in everything a sign of a cult?  Who knew.



Which other Muslims?


Whabbist, some Shia Muslims are hostile.  ISIS were killing them. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi–Salafi_relations


Thanks for the research, Secret. Would you mind quoting the part about Muslims calling Sufism a cult, please?


Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’Ibadan

https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/

Seems in my quick squizz, sect is the preffered word, so it is a sect persecuted by other Muslims.  A distinction with cult without a difference. 


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Karnal
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #61 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:16pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:08pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:59pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:42pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:40pm:
Who says this?  Other Muslims.

Seeing God in everything a sign of a cult?  Who knew.



Which other Muslims?


Whabbist, some Shia Muslims are hostile.  ISIS were killing them. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi–Salafi_relations


Thanks for the research, Secret. Would you mind quoting the part about Muslims calling Sufism a cult, please?


Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’Ibadan

https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/

Seems in my quick squizz, sect is the preffered word, so it is a sect persecuted by other Muslims.  A distinction with cult without a difference. 




I can't open your link, Secret, but the URL says the Sufis are a sect.

Is that what your article says too? You've written the word, "cult".
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freediver
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #62 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:25pm
 
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:19pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:00pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 2:23pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 11:37am:
imho, many organisations could be termed a cult.

As long as they do not harm and conform to the greater society, that's ok.

eg, the Star Wars group do no harm.
The Buddhists and Hare Krishnas do not harm.


Alas, Sprint, that's not the definition of a cult. It is, however, the definition of liberalism: "do whatever you like as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else".

A cult is a hierarchical organization, built around a strong, usually charismatic, leader. Cults encourage members to see outsiders as dangerous and/or evil. They encourage members to proselytize and bring more members into the cult. Cults enforce obedience and involve themselves in all areas of their members lives. There are no secrets in a cult - the leadership must know everything about its members. Leaders of cults are usually paranoid about potential rivals, and hunt down powerful members.

The Hare Krishnas are indeed a cult, although they've softened over the last 2 decades. Their leader, Prabhubada, who died in the early 1970s, is immortalized in lifelike wax statues placed in every Krishna temple. This is common in a cult - leaders do not lose their power after death.

The most seemingly trivial details of members' lives are controlled, particularly around sex and family life. In the Krishnas, couples can only have sex a few times a year, and only then after chanting thousands of rounds of mantras. Only the missionary position is allowed, and only vaginal intercourse. Couples must be married, and those marriages must be approved. In the early days, members weren't allowed to get married at all. Chastity was crucial. After that, marriage partners were chosen for them. Today, they're given a bit more rope, but not a lot.

Islam is not a cult. There are certainly cults within Islam, and I believe ISIS is probably one. Islam lacks the central leadership, the insider/outsider group-think, and the restrictive practices. There are a few cult-like practices within Islam - the prayer times, the fasting, the rules around certain routines and rituals, but Islam is not organized like a cult. It is way too diverse to function as a cult, and there are too many competing groups, beliefs and practices.

The Hare Krishnas are a cult. Islam - in itself - is not.


Modern Islam is what happens when a cult goes imperialistic, gets too big, then collapses in on itself. Had Muhammed not had the chance, his cult would have been similar to the others you describe. People talk about the "peaceful Islam", which is what it was before Muhammed started murdering people en masse. He flipped Islam on its head when he got the chance to be the oppressor, and the rest is history.

The Mormons could have gone the same way, but John Smith was not a psychopath.


You could argue that Muhammed started a cult - I'd definitely say Joseph Smith did. I'd need to know more about early Islam before I'd make this claim.

Muhammed and his followers were at war. If you can prove Muhammed started this war as a mission to proselytize, then yes, I think you can prove Islam started out as a cult. 

Muslims (along with historians) believe, however, that Muhammed and his followers were attacked and chose to defend themselves. This self-defense is one of the main themes of the Koran, so it's pretty hard to miss. I believe you've argued before that this is one of the earliest examples of taqiyya; the Koran itself being based on a lie.

Personally, I'd need to know more about this to believe it, but even if its true, the religion of Islam is based on this principle.

You don't need to be a psychopath to start a cult. St Paul, for example, preached with words, not the sword.


Muhammed openly robbed Meccan caravans for years before they attacked him. The Jews he slaughtered did not attack him, and he had been weeding out Jews and preaching hostility against them for a long time prior. Muhammed sent raids to slaughter people and destroy pagan sites, not because they attacked him, but because they were pagans. Muhammed's self defense is no different from that of French Muslims 'defending' themselves against cartoonists. The self-defense delusion is what drives the modern Islamic victimhood industry. They get so good at turning Muhammed's hostility into victimhood that they cannot help doing it for themselves and their fellow Muslims, and suddenly anyone who complains about people getting blown up in the street is a racist.
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Secret Wars
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #63 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:26pm
 
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:16pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:08pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:59pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:42pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:40pm:
Who says this?  Other Muslims.

Seeing God in everything a sign of a cult?  Who knew.



Which other Muslims?


Whabbist, some Shia Muslims are hostile.  ISIS were killing them. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi–Salafi_relations


Thanks for the research, Secret. Would you mind quoting the part about Muslims calling Sufism a cult, please?


Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’Ibadan

https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/

Seems in my quick squizz, sect is the preffered word, so it is a sect persecuted by other Muslims.  A distinction with cult without a difference. 




I can't open your link, Secret, but the URL says the Sufis are a sect.

Is that what your article says too? You've written the word, "cult".


I resent that implication, I try to be an honest debater.

Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’ibadah…”

Try this https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/
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Karnal
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #64 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:25pm:
Muhammed openly robbed Meccan caravans for years before they attacked him. The Jews he slaughtered did not attack him, and he had been weeding out Jews and preaching hostility against them for a long time prior. Muhammed sent raids to slaughter people and destroy pagan sites, not because they attacked him, but because they were pagans. Muhammed's self defense is different from that of French Muslims 'defending' themselves against cartoonists. The self-defense delusion is what drives the modern Islamic victimhood industry.


I hope you'll forgive me if I take all this with a grain of salt, FD.

FD is saying this.
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GordyL
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #65 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:31pm
 
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:27pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:25pm:
Muhammed openly robbed Meccan caravans for years before they attacked him. The Jews he slaughtered did not attack him, and he had been weeding out Jews and preaching hostility against them for a long time prior. Muhammed sent raids to slaughter people and destroy pagan sites, not because they attacked him, but because they were pagans. Muhammed's self defense is different from that of French Muslims 'defending' themselves against cartoonists. The self-defense delusion is what drives the modern Islamic victimhood industry.


I hope you'll forgive me if I take all this with a grain of salt, FD.

FD is saying this.


Salt you say, a grain is ok Wink


Lets try understand this with chemistry.

Australia = potable water
Muslims = salt

If you ad the salt slowly and gradually and stir the water vigorously, adding a bit more potable water as you go, the water will remain potable.

However, if you ad too much salt too quickly, or if the salt is not added evenly, for instance if there is a part of container where the salt tends to clump together (Lakemba) the salt will stop dissolving into the water.

When you've exceeded 385 grams of salt per liter of water, the water will no longer be drinkable and the salt will totally fail to dissolve.

This post will be filed under Muslim immigration and basic chemistry.
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Karnal
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #66 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:31pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:26pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:16pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:08pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:59pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:42pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:40pm:
Who says this?  Other Muslims.

Seeing God in everything a sign of a cult?  Who knew.



Which other Muslims?


Whabbist, some Shia Muslims are hostile.  ISIS were killing them. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi–Salafi_relations


Thanks for the research, Secret. Would you mind quoting the part about Muslims calling Sufism a cult, please?


Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’Ibadan

https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/

Seems in my quick squizz, sect is the preffered word, so it is a sect persecuted by other Muslims.  A distinction with cult without a difference. 




I can't open your link, Secret, but the URL says the Sufis are a sect.

Is that what your article says too? You've written the word, "cult".


I resent that implication, I try to be an honest debater.

Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’ibadah…”

Try this https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/


I'm not making any implication, Secret. Your article says sect. You've then said sect is the "preferred" word. I'm not sure whether you're quoting your passage above or stating it: Quote:
Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult


If they have, can you show where?

Also, do you know the difference between a sect and a cult?

Remember, you're an honest debater. You've provided two links now without any references to Sufism as a cult, which is your claim.
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #67 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:32pm
 
Quote:
We see the same with Mormons and their prophet Joseph Smith. I think Mormonism is much more cult-like than Islam, but only because of its hierarchical leadership. It is possible to be a Mormon and not an active participant in the church.


Islam does not lack central eladership by design. It is supposed to be centralised under Muhammed and his successors, as it was for a long time. It is only when it turned on itself that it lacked this. If the Mormons started killing each other over who got to be head honcho, they would also soon find themselves to be part of a decentralised religion. I am not sure why Muslims trot this one out so willingly. Not only is Islam meant to be a centralised religion, it is meant to be a centralised state and empire.

Quote:
I hope you'll forgive me if I take all this with a grain of salt, FD.


Ask me to back it up Karnal.
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Karnal
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #68 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:32pm:
Ask me to back it up Karnal.


You want me to ask?

No, FD, I'll pass. I think you're forgetting I've been reading your posts on Islam for a few years now. I've also read your posts (and some convincing rebuttals) on this very issue.

If you've got anything new, by all means, post away. But I do hope you'll forgive me if I'm reluctant to accept the claims of someone who refuses to state whether he's okay with porkies or not.

The issue of this thread is cults. You don't have to prove Islam's a cult to disagree with it. I don't agree with plenty of things, but I don't try to present them as cults.
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Secret Wars
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #69 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:40pm
 
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:31pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:26pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:16pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:08pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:59pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:42pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:40pm:
Who says this?  Other Muslims.

Seeing God in everything a sign of a cult?  Who knew.



Which other Muslims?


Whabbist, some Shia Muslims are hostile.  ISIS were killing them. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi–Salafi_relations


Thanks for the research, Secret. Would you mind quoting the part about Muslims calling Sufism a cult, please?


Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’Ibadan

https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/

Seems in my quick squizz, sect is the preffered word, so it is a sect persecuted by other Muslims.  A distinction with cult without a difference. 




I can't open your link, Secret, but the URL says the Sufis are a sect.

Is that what your article says too? You've written the word, "cult".


I resent that implication, I try to be an honest debater.

Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’ibadah…”

Try this https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/


I'm not making any implication, Secret. Your article says sect. You've then said sect is the "preferred" word. I'm not sure whether you're quoting your passage above or stating it: Quote:
Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult


If they have, can you show where?

Also, do you know the difference between a sect and a cult?

Remember, you're an honest debater. You've provided two links now without any references to Sufism as a cult, which is your claim.


That is the direct quote, not altered. I don't do that.  And again I resent your implication.  That url is direct from my iPad bar.

Try going to https://thewahhabithreat.com/
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #70 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:43pm
 
Quote:
No, FD, I'll pass. I think you're forgetting I've been reading your posts on Islam for a few years now. I've also read your posts (and some convincing rebuttals) on this very issue.


Are you saying Muhammed did not spend years robbing Meccan caravans, or were you merely convinced by Abu's rebuttal that he was merely 'stealing it all back' after getting chased out of Mecca for unknown reasons?

Quote:
Members of Scientology are brainwashed slowly, in stages. You don't get taught about reincarnation at first. If you ask, you won't get a straight answer. You don't hear about the aliens who populated Earth initially - all this comes later, almost as a test of your loyalty once you're in. If you join the inner group, the Sea Org, you make a pledge to practice Scientology for a billion years, and not to rest until all forms of life have become clear.


I think you have answered a question I have been directing at Gandalf. Muhammed did this. His early peaceful, alcohol tolerant religion is completely different from the rape and pillage version that later followed. Today, mainstream Muslim leaders are frequently exposed in the press for telling blatant lies to the media and something completely different to their followers. Of course, they aren't Christian, but it is still a good example.
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Secret Wars
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #71 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:45pm
 
https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/

Can anyone else apart from karnal find it using this link?
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #72 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:50pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:40pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:31pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:26pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:16pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:08pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:59pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:56pm:
Karnal wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:42pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 5:40pm:
Who says this?  Other Muslims.

Seeing God in everything a sign of a cult?  Who knew.



Which other Muslims?


Whabbist, some Shia Muslims are hostile.  ISIS were killing them. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi–Salafi_relations


Thanks for the research, Secret. Would you mind quoting the part about Muslims calling Sufism a cult, please?


Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’Ibadan

https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/

Seems in my quick squizz, sect is the preffered word, so it is a sect persecuted by other Muslims.  A distinction with cult without a difference. 




I can't open your link, Secret, but the URL says the Sufis are a sect.

Is that what your article says too? You've written the word, "cult".


I resent that implication, I try to be an honest debater.

Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’ibadah…”

Try this https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufis-a-deviant-sect
/


I'm not making any implication, Secret. Your article says sect. You've then said sect is the "preferred" word. I'm not sure whether you're quoting your passage above or stating it: Quote:
Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult


If they have, can you show where?

Also, do you know the difference between a sect and a cult?

Remember, you're an honest debater. You've provided two links now without any references to Sufism as a cult, which is your claim.


That is the direct quote, not altered. I don't do that.  And again I resent your implication.  That url is direct from my iPad bar.

Try going to https://thewahhabithreat.com/


Nothing again, Secret. Why don't you post a bit more of your article? It seems to be about Wahabi views of Sufism, not Sufism as a cult.

Either this, or try another article. Your original proposal was that Muslims see Sufism as a cult. You're now posting articles that show Muslims ganging up on Sufis for having a different take on Islam, and they do. We all know this. I met a refugee from Iran who left because they persecuted him being a Sufi.

A lovely guy, but definitely not in a cult.
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #73 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:52pm
 
Are the Sufis a Deviant Sect?
Sufi is simply an active participle for a person who practices the science of tassawuf by study and application. Tassawuf, although new in terminology, is in fact from the Qur’an and the Sunnah. It is described in the Qur’an as tazkiyah, and is known in the Ahaadeeth as Ihsaan. Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah states that “Tassawuf is the state of Ihsaan and it is described in the Qur’an as Tazkiyah an-Nafs…”

In short Tassawuf is the science of purification of the heart, mind, body and the soul, by the development of taqwa to avoid what Allah has forbidden and take the path that Allah has enjoined, and to have adab and Akhlaaq knowing “Allah is seeing you” at every moment. So not only is tazkiyah purification from sins, but also perfection of character. Tassawuf is therefore simply a synonym

Wahhabis all to often try to paint Sufis as a deviant cult but yet are unaware that Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah has dedicated a whole volume [volume 11] from his Majmu’a al-Fatawaa to the science of tassawuf, in which he wrote the following: “The Sufi is in reality from amongst the people of truth. So he is one who specialises in the field of Zuhd and worship… “as-Sufi huwa fil-haqiqah naw’un min as-siddiqeen. Fahuwa as-siddiq alladhi ikhtassa bil-zuhadi wal-’ibadah…”

The Shaykh says further: “…Some of the people accept blindly the wrong practices that has been innovated with Tassawuf, causing others to reject it in totality. The right attitude, however, is to accept what is in agreement with the Qur’an, and the Sunnah, and to reject whatever has no foundation upon [the Qur’an and the Sunnah]…”

We cannot deny the reality that not every Muslim is guided correctly on the path of Islam due to the division of the 72 cults, however it would not be correct to claim that every Muslim is misguided. Sufis are from the Muslims, some are rightly guided some are misguided. This is a reality that the true Sufiyah accept. Imaam ‘Abdur Rahmaan al-Jawzi has made a point of the deviant Sufis in his text Talbees Iblees, however we cannot forget who his teacher was, the great Shaykh Abdul Qaadr al-Jilaani!

Shaykh Abdul Qaadir al-Jilaani said in his text Sirr al-Asrar, p. 65:

“There is a group of people called the Sufis. Four interpretations are given for this name. Some see, looking at their exterior, that they wear rough woollen garb. In Arabic the word for wool is suf, and they call them Sufis from this. Others, looking at their way of life free from the anxieties of this world, and at their ease and at peace, which in Arabic is safa, call them Sufis on that account. Yet others, seeing deeper, look at their hearts, which are purified of everything other than the Essence of Allah. Because of the purity of those hearts, in Arabic safi, they term them
Sufis. Others who know call them Sufis because they are close to Allah and will stand in the first row, in Arabic saff, before Allah on the day of the Last Judgement.”

The word tassawuf and its active participle [ism faa’3l] has been around as long as Imaam Maalik’s time, for Imaam Maalik has been reported to have said ” “Whoever practices tassawuf and does not practice his fiqh has corrupted his faith; likewise, whoever practices his fiqh and does not practice tassawuf has corrupted himself. Whosoever combines the two together, has proven to be true”

We see from this that Muslims upon the Ahl us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah have long identified themselves with being upon the path of Sufis, throughout almost 1400 years as Imaam Maalik was from the first generation! The same cannot be said for the term “Salafi” which has only appeared in the 13th century AH/ 1900ce.

With this said, the claim that the Sufis are a deviant cult, simply falls to the ground

As-Salaamu ‘alaykum, Wahhabis do much disparaging talk about the four Sisalahs of Sufi Islam. Below is a little something I have recently written. Even though I specifically speak from being inside the Naqshbani Tareeqah, I would like the reader to keep in mind I mean all sisalahs in general.

IMG_5539

The Naqshbandi Tareeqah owes it’s name to Baha-ud-Din Naqshband Bukhari [rahmatullah alayhi] who was born in the 7th century of Islam [after hijrah]. But yet out of the 13 spiritual masters [Khawajagaan] between Baha ud-deen and Abu Bakr as-Sideeq radiy Allahu anhu, the spiritual teachings and order was named Naqshbandi after him. There is nothing wrong with this labeling of the tareeqah, and since the teachings have been passed down from teacher to teacher, it is far from being an innovation of any sort.

Do those who criticize the four sisalas a ever stop to think why their favourate hadeeth collection is called Saheeh al-Bukhari instead of Saheeh al-Hadeeth?

The Sahaabah radiy Allahu anhum never quoted any hadeeth from a collection called Saheeh al-Bukhaari, nor Saheeh Muslim for that matter. These collections were unknown to them. Yet the hadeeth found within were certainly passed down from the Sahaabah radiy Allahu anhum.

The same is true when it comes to the the fiqh of tassawuf, which has only been coined with the names of the four sisalahs.

It is all too easy to confuse people regarding these matters. So much so, that the hadeeth prophecy that in the end times the Sunnah will be classified as bid’ah and the bid’ah will be classified as Sunnah has now come true. How can we distinguish sunnah from bid’ah when cultists are playing deceptive games with labels, yet fail to realize that the spirit behind these labels are
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Karnal
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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #74 - Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:54pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Apr 11th, 2016 at 6:45pm:
https://thewahhabithreat.com/zuhd-tazkiyah-tassawuf/are-the-sufi
s-a-deviant-sect/

Can anyone else apart from karnal find it using this link?


Got it - thank you. And yes, it makes a reference to cult. And yes again, it uses this word in this context to mean a minority group.

You're telling the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

See, FD? It's possible.
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