Australian Politics Forum - When is a religion a cult?

freediver

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #90 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 7:57pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 7:32pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 7:30pm:

I am happy to provide references Karnal. I even tried prompting you to ask for them.

Yes, FD, it's a pity I knocked back that opportunity. We'll never see them now.

Would it be fair to describe you as willfully ignorant on the matter?

I cited Muhammed's trick of not revealing the true nature of Islam until he was in a position of power as a cult-like property. You countered that he was merely acting in self defense, but have refused to discuss it ever since.

Would you describe the Islamic victimhood industry as part of the "seduction" strategy? Do you think Islam is unique in co-opting so many foolish non-Muslims into this stage of recruitment? Perhaps that is why Gandalf doesn't like to talk about it any more.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #91 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 7:59pm freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 6:25pm: Muhammed openly robbed Meccan caravans for years before they attacked him. So you wouldn't describe attempting to kill him and forcing him and his followers to flee into exile and confiscating all their property as an "attack"?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49439 At my desk.	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #92 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:02pm It depends on why they booted him out. Let me guess the answer - because he was a victim? Are the Meccans another hive-mind group that Muhammed conveniently identified as a target of his justice, in this case, stealing whatever he can from them? Or did he only steal from the Meccans who mistreated him?
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139586 Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #93 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:04pm Has FD ever NOT answered a question with a question?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #94 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:04pm freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:02pm: It depends on why they booted him out. No it doesn't actually. An attack is an attack, irrespective of whether you think its justified. You said the Meccans never attacked him before he did. Are you prepared to retract that claim?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106960 Melbourne Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #95 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:28pm Dear Gandalf - do you honestly believe that Mohammad went up to heaven on a horse with wings? I'm curious namaste
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GordyL Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4365 Hate Town Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #96 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:31pm Yes Gandy..
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35585 Gender:	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #97 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:57pm Excellent reading on this thread, Karnal. Brilliant stuff.
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Karnal

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #98 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 9:56pm

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 7:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 7:32pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 7:30pm:

I am happy to provide references Karnal. I even tried prompting you to ask for them.

Yes, FD, it's a pity I knocked back that opportunity. We'll never see them now.

Would it be fair to describe you as willfully ignorant on the matter?

Ignorant of eighth century Arab tribal wars, or Abu’s views on them?

Questions, questions.

Feel free to clear this mess up with your old posts, FD.

Not the faith ratchet one this time, please.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96625	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #99 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 9:58pm greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:04pm: Has FD ever NOT answered a question with a question? But of course. Sometimes he doesn’t answer them at all.
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Karnal

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #100 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 10:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:04pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

It depends on why they booted him out.

No it doesn't actually. An attack is an attack, irrespective of whether you think its justified.

You said the Meccans never attacked him before he did. Are you prepared to retract that claim?

Retract? Oh, G. You should know by now that you’re just twisting FD’s words, so unfair.

You Muslims do like to victimize poor FD so. Fancy taking away his Freeeeedom like this, you take that back.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #101 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 10:50pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 3:32pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 2:32pm:

5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

Who are these leaders within Islam, Matty?

Again, I'm curious.

moh

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Karnal

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #102 - Apr 11^th, 2016 at 11:47pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 10:50pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 3:32pm:

Sir James wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 2:32pm:

5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

Who are these leaders within Islam, Matty?

Again, I'm curious.

moh

Kill him (pbuh).

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freediver

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Re: When is a religion a cult?
Reply #103 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 5:01am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:04pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

It depends on why they booted him out.

No it doesn't actually. An attack is an attack, irrespective of whether you think its justified.

You said the Meccans never attacked him before he did. Are you prepared to retract that claim?

Why should I retract it? I have never been able to get a straight answer from Muslims on why he left Mecca, other than that children bit him and dogs spat on him whenever he sat down to pee.

Typically, the Muslim equates some kind of perceived injustice with an organised attack by a group of people, in order to justify organised hostilities by themselves or other Muslims.

Gandalf do you think this is a good example of the extreme "us vs them" characteristic of cults?

If we withdrew dual citizenship from Muslims for being terrorist supporters, could they use Islamic logic to justify stealing anything they could on it's way in to or out of Australia? Or is this behaviour by Muhammed abrogated by Muhammed's convenient revelation that theft should be punished by cutting off hands and feet, or death in the case of highway robbery? Or could they simply argue that Australia attacked them first and they are really at war, so anything goes? It's not so much a case of Muhammed withholding unpalatable parts of Islam from new recruits, it is more a matter of him making it up as he went along. Do you think that distinguishes Muhammed's band of merry head hackers from cults?

Quote:

Feel free to clear this mess up with your old posts, FD.

I am happy to give you the relevant wikipedia article Karnal, unless you are completely dedicated to your state of wilfull ignorance.

Do you still insist Muhammed's rapid raise from cult leader to militant empire leader was all an act of self defense and that he was really the victim every step of the way? Do you think this Islamic victimhood industry is a key strategy used by terrorist cults to seduce new members? Why are you so keen to help them out?

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« Last Edit: Apr 12^th, 2016 at 5:13am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96625	Re: When is a religion a cult? Reply #104 - Apr 12^th, 2016 at 8:57am Keen to help who out, FD? Historians? Make sure to keep putting little disclaimers into your posts. You can wriggle out of them later when G proves your claims wrong.
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