Australian Politics Forum - Pakistani wife beaters

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #75 - May 10^th, 2016 at 1:53pm

Karnal wrote Reply #62 - Yesterday at 2:33pm:

Quote:

I'm curious. How do you interpret a statement like "thou shalt not tempt thy God" as a religious duty to hate the Muselman?

When Yeheshua was dying on the cross, he asked his Father to forgive those who put him up there for their ignorance. This is the most compelling example of the new "covenant" you've described, Moses. Not only does Yeheshua do away with the eye-for-an-eye rhetoric, he taught - and practiced - forgiveness, tolerance and love for all.

No exceptions. In fact, he even tells followers what to do if hurt by an enemy - don't fight back, turn the other cheek. Those who love their enemies receive God's peace. Those who don't, as Yehesua said, are not true disciples. He made this clear too: "not all who go in my name will enter the Kingdom of heaven".

Yehesua taught his followers to leave judgement to God. He did not make an exception for those who follow different belief systems. The New Testament is clear. "Judge not, as ye surely shall be judged".

Maybe it doesn't mean what it says, eh?

Good try at guile Karnal, but it won't cut it here.

if you want to quote examples set by Christ then I give you:

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Now you want me to cast myself down before an evil hoard of satan worshipers (muslims) who believe that they have the right rape torture and murder non believers. (they become the highest grade of muslim if they embark on this course)

So do I have to love the evilness of islam?

No I don't Karnal, it's still Matthew 4:7 as the common sense reaction to the utter evilness of islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96560

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #76 - May 10^th, 2016 at 2:36pm

moses wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 1:53pm:

Karnal wrote Reply #62 - Yesterday at 2:33pm:

Quote:

I'm curious. How do you interpret a statement like "thou shalt not tempt thy God" as a religious duty to hate the Muselman?

When Yeheshua was dying on the cross, he asked his Father to forgive those who put him up there for their ignorance. This is the most compelling example of the new "covenant" you've described, Moses. Not only does Yeheshua do away with the eye-for-an-eye rhetoric, he taught - and practiced - forgiveness, tolerance and love for all.

No exceptions. In fact, he even tells followers what to do if hurt by an enemy - don't fight back, turn the other cheek. Those who love their enemies receive God's peace. Those who don't, as Yehesua said, are not true disciples. He made this clear too: "not all who go in my name will enter the Kingdom of heaven".

Yehesua taught his followers to leave judgement to God. He did not make an exception for those who follow different belief systems. The New Testament is clear. "Judge not, as ye surely shall be judged".

Maybe it doesn't mean what it says, eh?

Good try at guile Karnal, but it won't cut it here.

if you want to quote examples set by Christ then I give you:

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Now you want me to cast myself down before an evil hoard of satan worshipers (muslims) who believe that they have the right rape torture and murder non believers. (they become the highest grade of muslim if they embark on this course)

So do I have to love the evilness of islam?

No I don't Karnal, it's still Matthew 4:7 as the common sense reaction to the utter evilness of islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

No, Moses, you have to love your neighbor as you love thyself. If you preach the opposite, there is no way you can call yourself a Christian.

Jesus being tempted in the desert has nothing to do with the Muselman. You know this.

Have you ever thought of becoming baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Back to top

IP Logged

Ashley

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 526

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #77 - May 10^th, 2016 at 2:47pm

moses wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 1:53pm:

Karnal wrote Reply #62 - Yesterday at 2:33pm:

Quote:

I'm curious. How do you interpret a statement like "thou shalt not tempt thy God" as a religious duty to hate the Muselman?

When Yeheshua was dying on the cross, he asked his Father to forgive those who put him up there for their ignorance. This is the most compelling example of the new "covenant" you've described, Moses. Not only does Yeheshua do away with the eye-for-an-eye rhetoric, he taught - and practiced - forgiveness, tolerance and love for all.

No exceptions. In fact, he even tells followers what to do if hurt by an enemy - don't fight back, turn the other cheek. Those who love their enemies receive God's peace. Those who don't, as Yehesua said, are not true disciples. He made this clear too: "not all who go in my name will enter the Kingdom of heaven".

Yehesua taught his followers to leave judgement to God. He did not make an exception for those who follow different belief systems. The New Testament is clear. "Judge not, as ye surely shall be judged".

Maybe it doesn't mean what it says, eh?

Good try at guile Karnal, but it won't cut it here.

if you want to quote examples set by Christ then I give you:

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Now you want me to cast myself down before an evil hoard of satan worshipers (muslims) who believe that they have the right rape torture and murder non believers. (they become the highest grade of muslim if they embark on this course)

So do I have to love the evilness of islam?

No I don't Karnal, it's still Matthew 4:7 as the common sense reaction to the utter evilness of islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

Yes we are allowed to hate evil in every form and call it what it is.

Islam is evil a product of Satan.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96560

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #78 - May 10^th, 2016 at 3:09pm

Ashley wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 2:47pm:

moses wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 1:53pm:

Karnal wrote Reply #62 - Yesterday at 2:33pm:

Quote:

I'm curious. How do you interpret a statement like "thou shalt not tempt thy God" as a religious duty to hate the Muselman?

When Yeheshua was dying on the cross, he asked his Father to forgive those who put him up there for their ignorance. This is the most compelling example of the new "covenant" you've described, Moses. Not only does Yeheshua do away with the eye-for-an-eye rhetoric, he taught - and practiced - forgiveness, tolerance and love for all.

No exceptions. In fact, he even tells followers what to do if hurt by an enemy - don't fight back, turn the other cheek. Those who love their enemies receive God's peace. Those who don't, as Yehesua said, are not true disciples. He made this clear too: "not all who go in my name will enter the Kingdom of heaven".

Yehesua taught his followers to leave judgement to God. He did not make an exception for those who follow different belief systems. The New Testament is clear. "Judge not, as ye surely shall be judged".

Maybe it doesn't mean what it says, eh?

Good try at guile Karnal, but it won't cut it here.

if you want to quote examples set by Christ then I give you:

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Now you want me to cast myself down before an evil hoard of satan worshipers (muslims) who believe that they have the right rape torture and murder non believers. (they become the highest grade of muslim if they embark on this course)

So do I have to love the evilness of islam?

No I don't Karnal, it's still Matthew 4:7 as the common sense reaction to the utter evilness of islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

Yes we are allowed to hate evil in every form and call it what it is.

Islam is evil a product of Satan.

That's right, you've become a Christian too, Matty. Bless you.

How come we non-Christians need to keep telling you guys what your religion is?

Oh, that's right - it doesn't mean what it says. We just read the Bible for what it says.

You interpret it.

It is a jolly world, no?

Back to top

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #79 - May 10^th, 2016 at 3:10pm

Karnal wrote:

Quote:

No, Moses, you have to love your neighbor as you love thyself. If you preach the opposite, there is no way you can call yourself a Christian.

Jesus being tempted in the desert has nothing to do with the Muselman. You know this.

Have you ever thought of becoming baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Well 2 Corinthians says differently

2 CORINTHIANS 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2 CORINTHIANS 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2 CORINTHIANS 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 CORINTHIANS 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

So once again the common sense approach was taught.

Keep well clear of the evil in the world.

My belief is that islam is a satanic concept.

The actions of muslims themselves around the globe bear testimony to my perceptions.

I can't see anything which forces Christians to love satanism / islam.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96560

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #80 - May 10^th, 2016 at 3:18pm

moses wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 3:10pm:

Karnal wrote:

Quote:

No, Moses, you have to love your neighbor as you love thyself. If you preach the opposite, there is no way you can call yourself a Christian.

Jesus being tempted in the desert has nothing to do with the Muselman. You know this.

Have you ever thought of becoming baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Well 2 Corinthians says differently

2 CORINTHIANS 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Sorry, Moses, that just tells you not to get too attached to them. It doesn't say anything about hating them, banning them, killing them.

You must have missed 1 Corinthians. Here's the most important part:

Quote:

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

It is a jolly world, no?

Back to top

IP Logged

moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Pakistani wife beaters Reply #81 - May 10^th, 2016 at 3:21pm Where does it say to love evil?
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #82 - May 10^th, 2016 at 3:52pm

Karnal wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

moses wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 1:53pm:

Karnal wrote Reply #62 - Yesterday at 2:33pm:

Quote:

I'm curious. How do you interpret a statement like "thou shalt not tempt thy God" as a religious duty to hate the Muselman?

When Yeheshua was dying on the cross, he asked his Father to forgive those who put him up there for their ignorance. This is the most compelling example of the new "covenant" you've described, Moses. Not only does Yeheshua do away with the eye-for-an-eye rhetoric, he taught - and practiced - forgiveness, tolerance and love for all.

No exceptions. In fact, he even tells followers what to do if hurt by an enemy - don't fight back, turn the other cheek. Those who love their enemies receive God's peace. Those who don't, as Yehesua said, are not true disciples. He made this clear too: "not all who go in my name will enter the Kingdom of heaven".

Yehesua taught his followers to leave judgement to God. He did not make an exception for those who follow different belief systems. The New Testament is clear. "Judge not, as ye surely shall be judged".

Maybe it doesn't mean what it says, eh?

Good try at guile Karnal, but it won't cut it here.

if you want to quote examples set by Christ then I give you:

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Now you want me to cast myself down before an evil hoard of satan worshipers (muslims) who believe that they have the right rape torture and murder non believers. (they become the highest grade of muslim if they embark on this course)

So do I have to love the evilness of islam?

No I don't Karnal, it's still Matthew 4:7 as the common sense reaction to the utter evilness of islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

No, Moses, you have to love your neighbor as you love thyself. If you preach the opposite, there is no way you can call yourself a Christian.

Jesus being tempted in the desert has nothing to do with the Muselman. You know this.

Have you ever thought of becoming baptized in the Holy Spirit?

I guess moses just has to make sure none of his neighbours are muslim right?

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96560	Re: Pakistani wife beaters Reply #83 - May 10^th, 2016 at 3:55pm moses wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 3:21pm: Where does it say to love evil? It says to love sinners, Moses. Why are you trying to get out of this?
Back to top	IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #84 - May 10^th, 2016 at 3:55pm

The N.T. also tells Christians to abhor evil

Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Abhor means?

Find repugnant, to loathe.

Then we have part of the the Lords prayer:

Matthew 6:13 lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

Christians most certainly would not be commanded to love evil, then have to pray to be delivered from it.

I still can see nothing which says Christians must love the utter evilness of islam.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96560

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #85 - May 10^th, 2016 at 3:55pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 3:52pm:

Karnal wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

moses wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 1:53pm:

Karnal wrote Reply #62 - Yesterday at 2:33pm:

Quote:

I'm curious. How do you interpret a statement like "thou shalt not tempt thy God" as a religious duty to hate the Muselman?

When Yeheshua was dying on the cross, he asked his Father to forgive those who put him up there for their ignorance. This is the most compelling example of the new "covenant" you've described, Moses. Not only does Yeheshua do away with the eye-for-an-eye rhetoric, he taught - and practiced - forgiveness, tolerance and love for all.

No exceptions. In fact, he even tells followers what to do if hurt by an enemy - don't fight back, turn the other cheek. Those who love their enemies receive God's peace. Those who don't, as Yehesua said, are not true disciples. He made this clear too: "not all who go in my name will enter the Kingdom of heaven".

Yehesua taught his followers to leave judgement to God. He did not make an exception for those who follow different belief systems. The New Testament is clear. "Judge not, as ye surely shall be judged".

Maybe it doesn't mean what it says, eh?

Good try at guile Karnal, but it won't cut it here.

if you want to quote examples set by Christ then I give you:

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Now you want me to cast myself down before an evil hoard of satan worshipers (muslims) who believe that they have the right rape torture and murder non believers. (they become the highest grade of muslim if they embark on this course)

So do I have to love the evilness of islam?

No I don't Karnal, it's still Matthew 4:7 as the common sense reaction to the utter evilness of islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

No, Moses, you have to love your neighbor as you love thyself. If you preach the opposite, there is no way you can call yourself a Christian.

Jesus being tempted in the desert has nothing to do with the Muselman. You know this.

Have you ever thought of becoming baptized in the Holy Spirit?

I guess moses just has to make sure none of his neighbours are muslim right?

Well yes - neighbors or enemies. You're meant to love them too.

Back to top

« Last Edit: May 10^th, 2016 at 4:11pm by Karnal »

IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Pakistani wife beaters Reply #86 - May 10^th, 2016 at 4:10pm So does the NT cover all humans, good, bad, evil, retarded etc - that must be loved, or is there some escape clause that could allow moses to hate muslims?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96560

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #87 - May 10^th, 2016 at 4:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 4:10pm:

So does the NT cover all humans, good, bad, evil, retarded etc - that must be loved, or is there some escape clause that could allow moses to hate muslims?

That's what I asked him. Moses appears to be saying that the NT has been rescinded - you know, like the OT.

Gud keeps changing His mind and putting out all these Ts. Moses is currently waiting for the updated one that tells you to hate the Muselman.

Back to top

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #88 - May 10^th, 2016 at 4:15pm

The N.T. also tells Christians to abhor evil

Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Abhor means?

Find repugnant, to loathe.

Then we have part of the the Lords prayer:

Matthew 6:13 lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

Christians most certainly would not be commanded to love evil, then have to pray to be delivered from it.

I still can see nothing which says Christians must love the utter evilness of islam.

islam, allah, muhammad and the qura'n all evil so abhor their evilness, pray to be delivered from their evilness

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Pakistani wife beaters
Reply #89 - May 10^th, 2016 at 4:16pm

moses wrote on May 10^th, 2016 at 3:55pm:

The N.T. also tells Christians to abhor evil

Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Abhor means?

Find repugnant, to loathe.

Then we have part of the the Lords prayer:

Matthew 6:13 lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

Christians most certainly would not be commanded to love evil, then have to pray to be delivered from it.

I still can see nothing which says Christians must love the utter evilness of islam.

your trying to shift the goalposts moses.

You are commanded to love your enemies - enemies are people, ie muslims.

Evil, is a force that emanates from satan or 'unGodliness' or some such. I'd be surprised if christian doctrine would conceive of a human who is "evil incarnate". No, from your point of view, Islam is the force of evil, but muslims (ie actual people) are your enemy, who (rather sadly) have fallen to the force of evil. And as your enemy, you are commanded to love them.

Rather sneaky of you to try and conflate "muslims" and "Islam" - or from your POV, 'enemies' and 'evil'

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged