Australian Politics Forum - Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees

sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees
Reply #210 - May 20^th, 2016 at 8:59am

Raven wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 12:58am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 12:02am:

Raven wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 11:52pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 11:39pm:

Raven wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 11:35pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 10:58pm:

mothra wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 10:58pm:

Secret Wars wrote on May 19^th, 2016 at 10:53pm:

Left winger has done some dog whistling and what a crew it has whistled up. Roll Eyes

I would like to know why Andrei being called a Jew is offensive and yet nothing is said about this:

innocentbystander. wrote on May 17^th, 2016 at 8:25pm:

You know, when your dear mussie terrorist friends come to carve off your pink bits they are going to slash your head by mistake c#%t face.

Although vulgur, the point he makes is relevant to the arguments being made by the regressive left who each day defend the actions of ultra rightwing extremists in the Middle East, for the sake of 'culturism'.

Hold on....

You find the term Jew, a word that has been used to describe them and a word they refer to themselves as, offensive.

Yet you do not find what innocentbystander said to be offensive because he makes a relevant argument

So if Leftwinger used the term Jew in a relevant argument you would not find that offensive?

Say Leftwinger was to say something vulgar. Something like referring to those of Jewish faith as nothing more than money hungry hooked nosed kikes, while putting forward a compelling argument to support the assertion...

(Andrei, Raven see's you over there with your finger hovering over the ban button. Raven is only using an example. Or perhaps a relevant argument.)

...Would you then be able to so simply explain away Leftwinger's comments as easily as you did innocentbystander's?

What a stupendous argument. You will 1) notice I said innocent was being vulgar and of course his point may have been said in a much more appropriate way, but yet again this is the result of the regressive left moving away from the traditional left opinion because of fear of 'islamophobia', and instead letting the Right take over. And 2) have a really stupid point regarding the fact that Jewish people may refer to themselves as 'Jew'. DO you go out and call afriacan americans n***** too? It seems to be okay, no?

What was the reason Leftwinger decided to add 'Jew' to nepotism? Are you suggesting that being nepotistic is a jewish problem? Please, by all means, prove your case.

So it's ok to be vulgar as long as you're making a point.

Leftwinger was no doubt making a point, though Christ knows what it was.

Have you ever met with Jews and asked them what their opinion is? You might find most of them have no problem being referred to by Jew.

well given I have come from the Jewish community I can tell you quite the opposite. The difference is that Jewish people tend to be reserved, so they'll just ignore the ignorance. Doesn't mean they like it. Not to mention that it is also the addition of jew to nepotism, to try and suggest that nepotism is a characteristic of jewish people. Andrei is not Jewish. Leftwinger knows this. Why add 'jew' in that reference? He is an antisemite, that's why; and it's clear anyway because he himself has acknowledge he doesn't like all 'jews'.

And I never said it was okay to be vulgar. I was simply saying that in his vulgur way, innocent was still making a point and that point isn't nullified because of how innocent said it. Innocent was not just being spew-worthy to be denigrating to mothra. He was at the very least, making a point which if said without his vulgarity is actually quite valid (that people from the regressive left will argue for islamic extremists rights to practice FGM until such time as they try and do it to them).

Ok, Raven will buy that, At the very least you must agree that what innocent said was far more offensive then Leftwingers comment.

Is calling someone a Jew anti-Semitic though? Though he is playing on a stereotype does that automatically make him an anti-Semite?

Is someone like Richard Hammond a racist for making a joke about Mexicans?

Now you find the term offensive and you are well within your right to be, and to your credit you are not asking Leftwinger be banned.

But is he truly an anti-Semite?

Of course not, satire can always be appreciated. However, this was hardly satire and there was no need to place Jew after nepotism, unless implying something. And given left wingers admission that he doesn't like all Jewish people, I wouldn't say he was trying to be satirical.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees
Reply #211 - May 20^th, 2016 at 9:10am

mothra wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 3:40am:

Hold on a minute. Bystanders comment has validity? Really?

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Most of them don't practice FGM.

How is Bystanders comments less offensive than calling someone a Jew?
You have lost me utterly Alevine.

Do you think "muzzies" is offensive?

Do you think to categorisation of all Muslims as genital butchers offensive?

Firstly you know as well as I do that it's very hard to document occurrences in developing nations and the number is likely to be much higher than the supposed 200 million in the word.

But I don't understand the denial - you seem to care about FGM so why does it matter to you so much that it isn't a problem because of religion, and specifically because of the Islamic belief? Denial will never solve any issues, and through denial we are simply creating a situation where we have 2 people, you and me, who are both disgusted by the issue, but rather than fighting to end it we are debating the cause because of denialism.
I would much prefer to be standing with you side by side on this issue, as opposed to having to debate with you the plausibility that FGM isn't caused by Islam despite the vast majority of FGM happening in islamic religious states. I'd much prefer to have you on my side, then me having to agree with innocent on the underlying, non vulgur version of what he was saying. It upsets me that conservatives seem to have taken control of these issues, when the opposition to FGM should instead be championed by the left, and without fear of insulting someone because the cause happens, at least via massive correlation, to be Ideas espoused by a religion.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/10/18/guest-post-the-relationship-...

And that's why I say innocents comment, vulgar as it may be, has validity. There is no need to defend Islam, especially when it's the perpetrator. I don't agree with the way he said it, but I agree with what his point is.

As for leftwinger, why would you defend his obvious, and misguided, antisemitism. I hope you don't think nepotism is a characteristic of Jewish people?

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« Last Edit: May 20^th, 2016 at 9:20am by sir prince duke alevine »

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees Reply #212 - May 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am Still here
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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees Reply #213 - May 20^th, 2016 at 9:38am Its time wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am: Still here How nice. I hope it was alcohol speaking last night, and your incoherent blabbering a were not the result of a conscience mind.
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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees Reply #214 - May 20^th, 2016 at 9:40am sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:38am: Its time wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am: Still here How nice. I hope it was alcohol speaking last night, and your incoherent blabbering a were not the result of a conscience mind. Beautiful day
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees
Reply #215 - May 20^th, 2016 at 9:41am

Its time wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:40am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:38am:

Its time wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am:

Still here

How nice.

I hope it was alcohol speaking last night, and your incoherent blabbering a were not the result of a conscience mind.

Beautiful day

Headache? Take some barocca.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees Reply #216 - May 20^th, 2016 at 9:46am Its time wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am: Still here Translation : He has no job.
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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees Reply #217 - May 20^th, 2016 at 10:07am Lisa Jones wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:46am: Its time wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am: Still here Translation : He has no job. Still here
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Raven

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Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees
Reply #218 - May 22^nd, 2016 at 12:33am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 8:59am:

Of course not, satire can always be appreciated. However, this was hardly satire and there was no need to place Jew after nepotism, unless implying something. And given left wingers admission that he doesn't like all Jewish people, I wouldn't say he was trying to be satirical.

Raven doesn't like all Jewish people, or all African Americans, hell there are some white people Raven down right can't stand. But that's because Raven is human.

And as a human, Raven is guilty of using stereotypes to describe other races. Just as surely as you yourself have in the past. It's the human condition. Just because Raven has used said stereotypes in the past, does not mean Raven is a racist, anti Semite or self hater.

The point is we can not know our fellow debaters motivation behind what they post, in their own mind they could think they are being satirical.

Before they died Raven's parents asked Raven's mothers best friend, a Jewish woman, to be his godmother. And she had no problem being referred to as a Jew. In fact she considered it a source of pride.

Raven says this because even though Leftwinger used a stereotype in one of his posts, Raven does not automatically assume Leftwinger is an anti Semite.

Raven is happy to be corrected If indeed he is.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82602 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees Reply #219 - May 22^nd, 2016 at 2:09am sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:38am: Its time wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am: Still here How nice. I hope it was alcohol speaking last night, and your incoherent blabbering a were not the result of a conscience mind. 'conscious, Freddy - CONSCIOUS....
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82602 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees Reply #220 - May 22^nd, 2016 at 2:14am Nepotism is derived from an Ancient Egyptian, who utilised the tenets of nepotism and thus more or less founded the idea and the word... his name was Nepot... employ your family and close mates first and foremost......
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees
Reply #221 - May 22^nd, 2016 at 2:22am

My great great grandparents on one side were German or Ashkenazi Jews - meaning they were not of the original tribes of Israel.... I'm not Jewish... though I share some of their genes..... whatever that means in the real world... Judaism isn't genetic - it is a religious concept.... and being Israeli does not necessarily imply Judaism, some Israelis are Muslim and many were until 1948 or so and lived side by side with Jews ..... so Andrei's cousins may or may not be Jewish, but they may be Israeli....

Personally I don't think it matters one whit.... this is a bootless argument.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees
Reply #222 - May 22^nd, 2016 at 9:47am

Raven wrote on May 22^nd, 2016 at 12:33am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 20^th, 2016 at 8:59am:

Of course not, satire can always be appreciated. However, this was hardly satire and there was no need to place Jew after nepotism, unless implying something. And given left wingers admission that he doesn't like all Jewish people, I wouldn't say he was trying to be satirical.

Raven doesn't like all Jewish people, or all African Americans, hell there are some white people Raven down right can't stand. But that's because Raven is human.

And as a human, Raven is guilty of using stereotypes to describe other races. Just as surely as you yourself have in the past. It's the human condition. Just because Raven has used said stereotypes in the past, does not mean Raven is a racist, anti Semite or self hater.

The point is we can not know our fellow debaters motivation behind what they post, in their own mind they could think they are being satirical.

Before they died Raven's parents asked Raven's mothers best friend, a Jewish woman, to be his godmother. And she had no problem being referred to as a Jew. In fact she considered it a source of pride.

Raven says this because even though Leftwinger used a stereotype in one of his posts, Raven does not automatically assume Leftwinger is an anti Semite.

Raven is happy to be corrected If indeed he is.

Raven misunderstood what leftwinger meant when he said he doesn't like all Jewish people. Leftwinger meant he doesn't like any Jewish people.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees
Reply #223 - May 22^nd, 2016 at 2:26pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 22^nd, 2016 at 2:22am:

My great great grandparents on one side were German or Ashkenazi Jews - meaning they were not of the original tribes of Israel.... I'm not Jewish... though I share some of their genes..... whatever that means in the real world... Judaism isn't genetic - it is a religious concept.... and being Israeli does not necessarily imply Judaism, some Israelis are Muslim and many were until 1948 or so and lived side by side with Jews ..... so Andrei's cousins may or may not be Jewish, but they may be Israeli....

Personally I don't think it matters one whit.... this is a bootless argument.....

Depends. To be considered a Jew amongst many Jewish groups you have to be born of a Jewish mother. So it is genetic in some cases.

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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: Dog-whistling Dutton has no clue about refugees Reply #224 - May 22^nd, 2016 at 2:26pm
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Question: Is Dutton a "great leader" ?
Yes 6 (23.1%) No 20 (76.9%) Total votes: 26 « Created by: greggerypeccary on: May 18^th, 2016 at 11:29am »