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a mindless collective of treacherous Jews (Read 91285 times)
freediver
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #195 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:19pm
 
I just did. Google is your friend Aussie.

Is it reasonable to assume from how fast you backed away from defending Gandalf that you also find his "mindless collective" justification disturbing?
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Karnal
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #196 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:34pm
 
No, FD, it wasn’t Abu, it was you.

You’re like that old crank unmasked at the end of  every Scooby Do episode. "And I would have got away with it if it wasn’t for those miserable kids!"
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freediver
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #197 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:50pm
 
What about you Karnal? Do you agree with Gandalf that they were a mindless collective?
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Aussie
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #198 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 9:05pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:19pm:
I just did. Google is your friend Aussie.

Is it reasonable to assume from how fast you backed away from defending Gandalf that you also find his "mindless collective" justification disturbing?


No. 

I've done the Google, freediver, well before you invited me to.  I want your nut shell version of all the relevant facts in this fairy tale.
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Karnal
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #199 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 9:32pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:50pm:
What about you Karnal? Do you agree with Gandalf that they were a mindless collective?


That’s another question, FD. Do you want to answer?
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freediver
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #200 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 9:49pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 9:05pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:19pm:
I just did. Google is your friend Aussie.

Is it reasonable to assume from how fast you backed away from defending Gandalf that you also find his "mindless collective" justification disturbing?


No. 

I've done the Google, freediver, well before you invited me to.  I want your nut shell version of all the relevant facts in this fairy tale.


Do you think Gandalf is correct about them being a mindless collective?
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Aussie
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #201 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 10:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 9:49pm:
Aussie wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 9:05pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:19pm:
I just did. Google is your friend Aussie.

Is it reasonable to assume from how fast you backed away from defending Gandalf that you also find his "mindless collective" justification disturbing?


No. 

I've done the Google, freediver, well before you invited me to.  I want your nut shell version of all the relevant facts in this fairy tale.


Do you think Gandalf is correct about them being a mindless collective?


Did he say they were?
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freediver
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #202 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 10:10pm
 
Do I need to quote him again Aussie? I suppose I must, it has been more than 5 minutes since the last time.
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Karnal
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #203 - Jun 13th, 2016 at 11:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 10:10pm:
Do I need to quote him again Aussie? I suppose I must, it has been more than 5 minutes since the last time.


We only have your own quotes here for all to see, FD. "Treacherous, scheming, cunning, mindless Jews."

Not only that, we have "Muslim inbreeding", "Arab/Negroid interbreeding", and the Muslim "wanting to take away the freedom of white people everywhere".

There’s nough here alone to get you an honourary membership of Herbie’s old organisation.

And we haven’t even uncovered the depths of your wacism.

But have no fear, we will.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #204 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 8:00am
 
freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:11pm:
It is not my invention Gandalf.


ah yeah it is.

But we can easily clear this up by showing us the quote of Abu (or whoever it was that told you) giving you the Sonderkommandos story.

freediver wrote on Jun 13th, 2016 at 8:11pm:
How about your recently acquired belief that it never happened? Is that what you were getting at with your "mainstream historical" version?


Mainstream version: Banu Qurayza treated with the enemy while they were attacking Medina, and conspired to open a new front against the muslims - in violation of the treaty they signed with Muhammad. Result - mass execution of male members of tribe

FD/Robert Spencer fringe version: Muhammad planned all along to dispense with the jews to secure power. Plus he was a rabid anti-semite. Everything that happened thereafter were mere pretexts to achieve this end - hence why the actual details of the incident are so fluid (eg - may or may not have treated with the enemy, but in any case it is completely justifiable if they did)
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #205 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 12:47pm
 
So the mainstream version is that Muhammed did in fact slaughter them? Is this the version you believe? Or do you prefer the "Jews made it up" version of history?

Gandalf would it be accurate to say that you believe they were treacherous Jews, but refrain from saying so directly, in order to avoid the appearance of racism?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #206 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 12:52pm
 
They were a treacherous tribe - treacherous because of what they did in terms of the treaty they signed - not because of what religion/ethnicity they belonged to. Whether or not they were jewish is irrelevant, and adds unnecessary detail - and in this particular case, brings in racist connotations.

Could you show me where you got the bit about the jews being forced to carry out the sentence and the executions from? In case you've forgotten:

Quote:
He got other Jews to pass the sentence and carry out many of the beheadings on his behalf, so that they would not later try to hold it against him.






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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #207 - Jun 14th, 2016 at 5:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 14th, 2016 at 12:47pm:
Gandalf would it be accurate to say that you believe they were treacherous Jews, but refrain from saying so directly, in order to avoid the appearance of racism?


Yes, G, and would it be fair to say that FD using such terms isn't wacism because FD is just pretending it was you?
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freediver
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #208 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:23pm
 
Quote:
They were a treacherous tribe - treacherous because of what they did in terms of the treaty they signed - not because of what religion/ethnicity they belonged to. Whether or not they were jewish is irrelevant, and adds unnecessary detail - and in this particular case, brings in racist connotations.


I was not asking you why they were treacherous Gandalf, or whether the detail was necessary, or why you refrain from saying it. I am just trying to figure out whether you think the racist connotations change whether it is true.

Would it be accurate to say that you believe they were treacherous Jews, but refrain from saying so directly, in order to avoid the appearance of racism?

Quote:
Could you show me where you got the bit about the jews being forced to carry out the sentence and the executions from?


I'll retract that claim. I must have been thinking of the Bani Aws, who were previously allies with them, but were not Jewish. Muhammed charged each clan of the Aws with murdering a batch of Jews each, to avoid any efforts at retribution. Although not Jewish, the mass death sentence passed by a Muslim convert from the Aws was explicitly justified on the grounds that it was Jewish law being passed on Jews. Thus, their Jewishness was explicitly used as a justification for the slaughter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Did you previously claim that two of the tribe escaped punishment by "disowning" the treachery?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: a mindless collective of treacherous Jews
Reply #209 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:23pm:
Would it be accurate to say that you believe they were treacherous Jews, but refrain from saying so directly, in order to avoid the appearance of racism?


No, as I've been trying to say, the phrase confers an offensive racist meaning that goes far beyond the literal meaning of the two individual words. It is literally a whole different meaning to saying (for example) 'treacherous people who happened to be of jewish faith'. Not dissimilar to "dirty black person/abo/curry-muncher" etc. Imagine if we were talking about an Aborigine who had fell into animal poo - you would be telling me 'yeah he's an aborigine, which we call Abo for short, and he's clearly dirty - so why not a 'dirty abo?' You of course understand why not in both situations, and is the only way your persistent efforts to shove it in my mouth makes sense.

freediver wrote on Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:23pm:
I'll retract that claim. I must have been thinking of the Bani Aws, who were previously allies with them


Leave you alone long enough to tell your own version of events, and as sure as night comes after day, you will make some porky up. You do it all the time FD. Its good that you retract it, but do you think your credibility in this debate suffers at all?

freediver wrote on Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:23pm:
Thus, their Jewishness was explicitly used as a justification for the slaughter


It was part of the negotiations while they were under siege. Muhammad offered to judge them under jewish law, and the Quraysh agreed - but insisted that only on the condition that the judgement was administered by their allies - the Bani Aws. Muhammad agreed. So in fact it was a Quraysh demand, which Muhammad agreed to for the sake of a speedy resolution. You of course would know this, because its cited in the same article you just linked. Funny how you didn't mention this little detail.

freediver wrote on Jun 15th, 2016 at 12:23pm:
Did you previously claim that two of the tribe escaped punishment by "disowning" the treachery?


I believe thats in the Ibn Ishaq account - feel free to look it up.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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