Australian Politics Forum - Crazy Yanky gun laws

Panther

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #210 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:53pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:39pm:

Most all of it is in plain English, no wild ass referrals from section to section to sub-part clauses mumbo-jumbo (what I call legalese)....& no legal background to understand it's basic precepts....the first 10 amendments for the most part. Wink

Surely the fact that it has to be interpreted hundreds of years after it was written, means it isn't in plain english

To one not familiar, that might be a simplistic thought.

IMHO, it's because the interpretation needs to be understood in the "original intent" frame of mind, whereas most lawyers today seem to want to ignore that, & they insist using today's terminologies as the basis for their legislation.....some just want to make believe the past never existed....but that is their mistake....the framers of the American Constitution carefully crafted their wording to be understood by everyone......everyone in their day anyway.....& their ideas about issues, & what they wanted this new government.....a government for & by the people....a self governing people..... & what they wanted this new government they were founding in 1776 to precisely be for posterity, needs to be understood today, in our time, as they wrote it.

Hope that helps

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #211 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:53pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:39pm:

Most all of it is in plain English, no wild ass referrals from section to section to sub-part clauses mumbo-jumbo (what I call legalese)....& no legal background to understand it's basic precepts....the first 10 amendments for the most part. Wink

Surely the fact that it has to be interpreted hundreds of years after it was written, means it isn't in plain english

To one not familiar, that might be a simplistic thought.

IMHO, it's because the interpretation needs to be understood in the "original intent" frame of mind, whereas most lawyers today seem to want to ignore that, & they insist using today's terminologies as the basis for their legislation.....some just want to make believe the past never existed....but that is their mistake....the framers of the American Constitution carefully crafted their wording to be understood by everyone......everyone in their day anyway.....& their ideas about issues, & what they wanted this new government.....a government for & by the people....a self governing people..... & what they wanted this new government they were founding in 1776 to precisely be for posterity needs to be understood today, in our time.

Hope that helps

Not really, because surely if there was an original intent, why not just write it down.

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Panther

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #212 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:02pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Not really, because surely if there was an original intent, why not just write it down.

They did.....in 1776 through 1792.....The Constitution of the United States of America....They knew what they wanted.....something that the world had never saw before.....a Government of the People, & by the People......a self-governing People, which was never attempted until then.

If you lived in New York....in 1790, you would have understood virtually every word......most everyone of that time would.....it's us, most of us, that need scholors to help us understand what it says.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #213 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:04pm

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:02pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Not really, because surely if there was an original intent, why not just write it down.

They did.....in 1776 through 1792.....The Constitution of the United States of America....They knew what they wanted.....something that the world had never saw before.....a Government of the People, & by the People......a self-governing People, which was never attempted until then.

Lol, sure real clear.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Panther

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #214 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:10pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:04pm:

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:02pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Not really, because surely if there was an original intent, why not just write it down.

They did.....in 1776 through 1792.....The Constitution of the United States of America....They knew what they wanted.....something that the world had never saw before.....a Government of the People, & by the People......a self-governing People, which was never attempted until then.

Lol, sure real clear.

If you lived in say New York....in 1790, you would have understood virtually every word......most everyone of that time would.....it's us, most of us, that need scholars & historians to help us understand what it says.

It's a living document......made to cross the tests of time, but not perfect....they knew it, that's why they made it amendable......not a simple process....& it shouldn't be.....but it is amendable....Has been amended 27 times in 225+ years.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #215 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:12pm

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:10pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:04pm:

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:02pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Not really, because surely if there was an original intent, why not just write it down.

They did.....in 1776 through 1792.....The Constitution of the United States of America....They knew what they wanted.....something that the world had never saw before.....a Government of the People, & by the People......a self-governing People, which was never attempted until then.

Lol, sure real clear.

If you lived in say New York....in 1790, you would have understood virtually every word......most everyone of that time would.....it's us, most of us, that need scholars & historians to help us understand what it says.

It's a living document......made to cross the tests of time, but not perfect....they knew it, that's why they made it amendable......not a simple process....& it shouldn't be.....but it is amendable....Has been 27 times in 225+ years.

True, thats why given chicks the vote took so long. Gun rights were more important

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Panther

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #216 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:29pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:12pm:

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:10pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:04pm:

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 4:02pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 3:55pm:

Not really, because surely if there was an original intent, why not just write it down.

They did.....in 1776 through 1792.....The Constitution of the United States of America....They knew what they wanted.....something that the world had never saw before.....a Government of the People, & by the People......a self-governing People, which was never attempted until then.

Lol, sure real clear.

If you lived in say New York....in 1790, you would have understood virtually every word......most everyone of that time would.....it's us, most of us, that need scholars & historians to help us understand what it says.

It's a living document......made to cross the tests of time, but not perfect....they knew it, that's why they made it amendable......not a simple process....& it shouldn't be.....but it is amendable....Has been 27 times in 225+ years.

True, thats why given chicks the vote took so long. Gun rights were more important

Yes, you are 100% correct.....In America being able to protect ones rights to defend one's own life.....self-defense......is/was more important than being able to vote.

Now, along with the right to vote, American women can defend their right to own keep & use firearms....enabling them to defend their own lives, & by the many millions they do.....more than that they have the right to use one for self-defense if they decide they need to.....not the goverment's decision......their decision, & no man or government can take that right away from them.....

JFYI........the 19th Amendment to the US Constitution made voting for women legal nationally, but women had the right to vote in many States way before then....some as far back as Revolutionary times. Way before here in Australia...Just thought you'd be interested.

http://www.history.com/news/the-state-where-women-voted-long-before-the-19th-ame...

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« Last Edit: Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 5:49pm by Panther »

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42299	Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws Reply #217 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 5:55pm New Zealand was the first country and British colony, to allow women the full franchise, in 1893. South Australia was the second British colony to allow women the full franchise, in 1895 and was the first to allow women the right to stand for Parliament, in 1897.
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Panther

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #218 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:16pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 5:55pm:

New Zealand was the first country and British colony, to allow women the full franchise, in 1893.

South Australia was the second British colony to allow women the full franchise, in 1895 and was the first to allow women the right to stand for Parliament, in 1897.

The United States of America ceased being a British Colony in 1776, via a very bloody Revolution, culminating in the far outnumbered American Patriots, armed with firearms, the American Long-Rifle, that were state of the art for the day, forced the last British Soldiers to flee at great haste, in fear of their lives.

American Women, nationally, didn't get the right to vote everywhere in America until the ratification of the 19th Amendment:

Quote:
Amendment XIX (1920)

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

But as noted here, American women already were voting way before that in many States....as early as the 1770's

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« Last Edit: Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:29pm by Panther »

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #219 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:34pm

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 5:55pm:

New Zealand was the first country and British colony, to allow women the full franchise, in 1893.

South Australia was the second British colony to allow women the full franchise, in 1895 and was the first to allow women the right to stand for Parliament, in 1897.

The United States of America ceased being a British Colony in 1776, via a very bloody Revolution, culminating in the far outnumbered American Patriots, armed with firearms, the American Long-Rifle, that were state of the art for the day, forced the last British Soldiers to flee at great haste, in fear of their lives.

American Women, nationally, didn't get the right to vote everywhere in America until the ratification of the 19th Amendment:

Quote:
Amendment XIX (1920)

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

But as noted here, American women already were voting way before that in many States....as early as the 1770's

Women had 2A rights before they were given the right to vote

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Brian Ross

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #220 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:45pm

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 5:55pm:

New Zealand was the first country and British colony, to allow women the full franchise, in 1893.

South Australia was the second British colony to allow women the full franchise, in 1895 and was the first to allow women the right to stand for Parliament, in 1897.

The United States of America ceased being a British Colony in 1776

Sounds like a personal problem, Panther. I'd recommend you see the Padre about it.

The rest of the world is what counts and we are discussing nations. Both New Zealand (1893) and Australia (1901) had granted the full franchise to women before the United States (1920). Time to grow up and accept that the USA was not the first. Roll Eyes

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Panther

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #221 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:54pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:34pm:

Panther wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 6:16pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 5:55pm:

New Zealand was the first country and British colony, to allow women the full franchise, in 1893.

South Australia was the second British colony to allow women the full franchise, in 1895 and was the first to allow women the right to stand for Parliament, in 1897.

The United States of America ceased being a British Colony in 1776, via a very bloody Revolution, culminating in the far outnumbered American Patriots, armed with firearms, the American Long-Rifle, that were state of the art for the day, forced the last British Soldiers to flee at great haste, in fear of their lives.

American Women, nationally, didn't get the right to vote everywhere in America until the ratification of the 19th Amendment:

Quote:
Amendment XIX (1920)

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

But as noted here, American women already were voting way before that in many States....as early as the 1770's

Women had 2A rights before they were given the right to vote

Absolutely 100% Correct.....Women fought side by side with men during the Revolutionary War. They used more than brooms......they used state of the art firearms.....Long Rifles.....the Right to Self-Defense is far older than the Second Amendment which didn't grant a right, only affirmed a right that was bestowed on all mankind by a higher power than government.

The Second Amendment does affirm that firearms were meant to be used for self-defense, & that the government is forbidden to infringe upon that Right of the People, both men & women.

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« Last Edit: Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 7:04pm by Panther »

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Bobby.

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Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws
Reply #222 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 7:49pm

Quote:

The Second Amendment does affirm that firearms were meant to be used for self-defense, & that the government is forbidden to infringe upon that Right of the People, both men & women.

The Govt. has a duty to defend us from insane madmen with firearms -
especially since we are not allowed to carry firearms to protect ourselves.

How else can they defend us except by making guns extremely difficult to obtain?

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75080 Gender:	Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws Reply #223 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 7:51pm I can't believe the yanks voted it down .. they're all friggen mad.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106480 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Crazy Yanky gun laws Reply #224 - Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 8:02pm John Smith wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2016 at 7:51pm: I can't believe the yanks voted it down .. they're all friggen mad. The Yanky Govt. has a duty to defend it citizens & they have failed.
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