Australian Politics Forum - Muslims always tell us what they think

Lisa Jones

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #240 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 2:29pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 2:19pm:

moses wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 2:00pm:

Brian Ross wrote:

Quote:

I know many Christians believe that The Bible is "divinely inspired" and that it cannot have it's words changed. The Bible instructs people to kill Gays and Lesbians, Moses. Do you follow that exhortation?

The bible finalizes and finishes the ancient law you're referring to in the N.T.: Luke 16:16 Mathew 5:17 Romans 3:20 Romans 3:28 Galatians 2:16 Galatians 3:11

Yes, those are the verses about divine inspiration.

Now, do you follow the verses which exhort you to kill Gays and Lesbians, Moses?

Please answer the question. Do you? Or don't you? If you do, doesn't that make you guilty of murder and if you don't, doesn't that render you a non-Christian, using your own definition of what makes a Christian? Roll Eyes

Moses, these are those supposed verses which exhort Christians to murder gay people according to Ahmed Troll :

Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:9–10.

Moses....look them up.

You'll have the biggest laugh!

Back to top

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

IP Logged

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Muslims always tell us what they think Reply #241 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 2:30pm Brian Ross wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 2:26pm: http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/122743/2332811-yawn_20smiley... Awww poor widdle tired twoll. Log off and get some sleep. We won't miss you.
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #242 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 2:52pm

Brian ross wrote

Quote:

Yes, those are the verses about divine inspiration.

Now, do you follow the verses which exhort you to kill Gays and Lesbians, Moses?

Please answer the question. Do you? Or don't you? If you do, doesn't that make you guilty of murder and if you don't, doesn't that render you a non-Christian, using your own definition of what makes a Christian?

You will have to elaborate, which verses command Christians to kill homosexuals?

Back to top

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #243 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 3:31pm

Aussie wrote

Quote:

So, 'Leviticus' was talking through his arse, was he? He was bearing false witness was he? He was making it all up? How can that be? How can the word of God be 'finalised and finished' by some later mere mortal?

The bible has two parts the old and new testaments, the old is acknowledged as a covenant between Y.H.W.H. and the Hebrews, Judaism.

The N.T. is the covenant between man and God through Christ.

Leviticus dates back to about 1450 B.C.

The theology is that man could not save himself through the deeds of the law (which you are quoting), so Y.H.W.H. out of love for man established that faith would replace the deeds of the law.

The ancient law required that a lamb or calf was to killed and offered to God as a sacrifice to atone for their sins.

The theology also says that faith would eventually be the requirement for sin to be atoned for.

Abraham had faith when he was tested so Y.H.W.H. provided the ram in the thicket to sacrifice, the Jews in Egypt had to have faith in the blood of a lamb over their door to stop their first born son being killed when Y.H.W.H. smote the Pharos son as a punishment, etc, this all culminates in Christ dying on the cross and his innocent blood does away with all the ancient laws and punishments.

So the 3,450 year old leviticus is not relevant to Christians, because the theology says that the sacrifices of lambs, goats and calves simply could not save man, that faith in Christ would be the ultimate requirement.

So yes theology says that Y.H.W.H (out of love for mankind) did change the requirements for man to be saved from the deeds of the law to faith in Christ.

What's wrong with that?

Should believers all be killing people and getting nowhere in spiritual evolution, or should they all be humane and offer the blood of Christ in faith.

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38521 Gender:	Re: Muslims always tell us what they think Reply #244 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 3:39pm Quote: The bible has two parts the old and new testaments, the old is acknowledged as a covenant between Y.H.W.H. and the Hebrews, Judaism. Yeas.....I do know that. But........Liviticus was doing what exactly? Talking crap.....what?
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #245 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 3:50pm

freediver wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 12:38pm:

let's move on to that question. What do you think Gandalf? All 800 of them, because they are all guilty of being part of a mindless collective of treacherous Jews? Tough titties, off with their heads, religion of peace????

Whatever suits your meme FD - you go with that. Clearly facts don't matter.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #246 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:24pm

Aussie wrote

Quote:

Yeas.....I do know that. But........Liviticus was doing what exactly? Talking crap.....what?

A 3,450 year old book

Author: Moses was the author of the Book of Leviticus.

Date of Writing: The Book of Leviticus was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C.

Purpose of Writing: Because the Israelites had been held captive in Egypt for 400 years, the concept of God had been distorted by the polytheistic, pagan Egyptians. The purpose of Leviticus is to provide instruction and laws to guide a sinful, yet redeemed people in their relationship with a holy God. There is an emphasis in Leviticus on the need for personal holiness in response to a holy God. Sin must be atoned for through the offering of proper sacrifices (chapters 8-10). Other topics covered in the book are diets (clean and unclean foods), childbirth, and diseases which are carefully regulated (chapters 11-15). Chapter 16 describes the Day of Atonement when an annual sacrifice is made for the cumulative sin of the people. Furthermore, the people of God are to be circumspect in their personal, moral, and social living, in contrast to the then-current practices of the heathen roundabout them (chapters 17-22).

source

In those times it most likely would not have raised any eyebrows mankind was more barbaric than most of us are today ( there are still some extremely backward inhumane people in the world), we are talking about the beginnings of civilization which culminated in today's societies (which had their foundations in Judaism and Christianity)

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38521
Gender: male

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #247 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:29pm

moses wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:24pm:

Aussie wrote

Quote:

Yeas.....I do know that. But........Liviticus was doing what exactly? Talking crap.....what?

A 3,450 year old book

Author: Moses was the author of the Book of Leviticus.

Date of Writing: The Book of Leviticus was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C.

Purpose of Writing: Because the Israelites had been held captive in Egypt for 400 years, the concept of God had been distorted by the polytheistic, pagan Egyptians. The purpose of Leviticus is to provide instruction and laws to guide a sinful, yet redeemed people in their relationship with a holy God. There is an emphasis in Leviticus on the need for personal holiness in response to a holy God. Sin must be atoned for through the offering of proper sacrifices (chapters 8-10). Other topics covered in the book are diets (clean and unclean foods), childbirth, and diseases which are carefully regulated (chapters 11-15). Chapter 16 describes the Day of Atonement when an annual sacrifice is made for the cumulative sin of the people. Furthermore, the people of God are to be circumspect in their personal, moral, and social living, in contrast to the then-current practices of the heathen roundabout them (chapters 17-22).

source

In those times it most likely would not have raised any eyebrows mankind was more barbaric than most of us are today ( there are still some extremely backward inhumane people in the world), we are talking about the beginnings of civilization which culminated in today's societies (which had their foundations in Judaism and Christianity)

You left this bit out.

Quote:

Leviticus 20:13New Living Translation (NLT)

13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

Yeas, I know...it is Old Testament.......but there it is. The word of God, in the Bible. Just like the Ten Commandments.

Back to top

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #248 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:41pm

Aussie wrote

Quote:

Yeas, I know...it is Old Testament.......but there it is. The word of God, in the Bible. Just like the Ten Commandments

You deliberately ignore the N.T. which overturns the law.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Seems pretty clear to me that the law had a time frame on it, it expired 2016 years ago.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95240
Gender: male

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #249 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:47pm

moses wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

Aussie wrote

Quote:

Yeas, I know...it is Old Testament.......but there it is. The word of God, in the Bible. Just like the Ten Commandments

You deliberately ignore the N.T. which overturns the law.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Seems pretty clear to me that the law had a time frame on it, it expired 2016 years ago.

The Joos don't follow the New Testament, dear.

Neither do you, Moses.

Back to top

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 40834

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #250 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:47pm

moses wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:24pm:

Aussie wrote

Quote:

Yeas.....I do know that. But........Liviticus was doing what exactly? Talking crap.....what?

A 3,450 year old book

Author: Moses was the author of the Book of Leviticus.

Date of Writing: The Book of Leviticus was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C.

Purpose of Writing: Because the Israelites had been held captive in Egypt for 400 years, the concept of God had been distorted by the polytheistic, pagan Egyptians. The purpose of Leviticus is to provide instruction and laws to guide a sinful, yet redeemed people in their relationship with a holy God. There is an emphasis in Leviticus on the need for personal holiness in response to a holy God. Sin must be atoned for through the offering of proper sacrifices (chapters 8-10). Other topics covered in the book are diets (clean and unclean foods), childbirth, and diseases which are carefully regulated (chapters 11-15). Chapter 16 describes the Day of Atonement when an annual sacrifice is made for the cumulative sin of the people. Furthermore, the people of God are to be circumspect in their personal, moral, and social living, in contrast to the then-current practices of the heathen roundabout them (chapters 17-22).

source

In those times it most likely would not have raised any eyebrows mankind was more barbaric than most of us are today ( there are still some extremely backward inhumane people in the world), we are talking about the beginnings of civilization which culminated in today's societies (which had their foundations in Judaism and Christianity)

Quote:

The traditional view is that Leviticus was compiled by Moses, or that the material in it goes back to his time, but internal clues suggest that the book developed much later in Israel's history and was completed either near the end of the Judean monarchy in the late seventh century BCE or in the exilic and post-exilic period of the sixth and fifth centuries BCE. Scholars debate whether it was written primarily for Jewish worship in exile that centered on reading or preaching,[3][4] or was aimed instead at worshipers at temples in Jerusalem and Samaria.[5] but they are practically unanimous that the book had a long period of growth, and that although it includes some material of considerable antiquity, it reached its present form in the Persian period (538–332 BCE).[6]

[Source]

Sorry, it doesn't appear that "Moses" (your namesake) wrote this book of The Old Testament, Moses, nor that it was written when Moses was supposedly alive, either... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 38521
Gender: male

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #251 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:48pm

moses wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

Aussie wrote

Quote:

Yeas, I know...it is Old Testament.......but there it is. The word of God, in the Bible. Just like the Ten Commandments

You deliberately ignore the N.T. which overturns the law.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Seems pretty clear to me that the law had a time frame on it, it expired 2016 years ago.

The Word of God has a finite life span? A sunset clause? Huh?

Further, it seems you expect me to accept something allegedly said 2016 years ago and not something allegedly said some many years earlier.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 5:03pm by Aussie »

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95240
Gender: male

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #252 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:56pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:29pm:

moses wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:24pm:

Aussie wrote

Quote:

Yeas.....I do know that. But........Liviticus was doing what exactly? Talking crap.....what?

A 3,450 year old book

Author: Moses was the author of the Book of Leviticus.

Date of Writing: The Book of Leviticus was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C.

Purpose of Writing: Because the Israelites had been held captive in Egypt for 400 years, the concept of God had been distorted by the polytheistic, pagan Egyptians. The purpose of Leviticus is to provide instruction and laws to guide a sinful, yet redeemed people in their relationship with a holy God. There is an emphasis in Leviticus on the need for personal holiness in response to a holy God. Sin must be atoned for through the offering of proper sacrifices (chapters 8-10). Other topics covered in the book are diets (clean and unclean foods), childbirth, and diseases which are carefully regulated (chapters 11-15). Chapter 16 describes the Day of Atonement when an annual sacrifice is made for the cumulative sin of the people. Furthermore, the people of God are to be circumspect in their personal, moral, and social living, in contrast to the then-current practices of the heathen roundabout them (chapters 17-22).

source

In those times it most likely would not have raised any eyebrows mankind was more barbaric than most of us are today ( there are still some extremely backward inhumane people in the world), we are talking about the beginnings of civilization which culminated in today's societies (which had their foundations in Judaism and Christianity)

You left this bit out.

Quote:

Leviticus 20:13New Living Translation (NLT)

13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

Yeas, I know...it is Old Testament.......but there it is. The word of God, in the Bible. Just like the Ten Commandments.

Yes, it's that little quote Christian theologians quote all the time.

If it had been rescinded by the gospels, Anglican and Catholic leaders like Peter Jensen and George Pell wouldn't have constantly referred to this quote as a statement of Christian doctrine.

Back to top

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 40834

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #253 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 5:02pm

moses wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 2:52pm:

Brian ross wrote

Quote:

Yes, those are the verses about divine inspiration.

Now, do you follow the verses which exhort you to kill Gays and Lesbians, Moses?

Please answer the question. Do you? Or don't you? If you do, doesn't that make you guilty of murder and if you don't, doesn't that render you a non-Christian, using your own definition of what makes a Christian?

You will have to elaborate, which verses command Christians to kill homosexuals?

Talk to:

Pastor Donnie Romero;

Pastor Roger Jiminez;

Pastor Steven Anderson.

As they are all calling for the deaths of Gays and Lesbians, Moses and they have declared themselves to be Christians... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Online

Representative of me

Posts: 40834

Re: Muslims always tell us what they think
Reply #254 - Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 5:03pm

Aussie wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:48pm:

moses wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2016 at 4:41pm:

Aussie wrote

Quote:

Yeas, I know...it is Old Testament.......but there it is. The word of God, in the Bible. Just like the Ten Commandments

You deliberately ignore the N.T. which overturns the law.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

Seems pretty clear to me that the law had a time frame on it, it expired 2016 years ago.

The Word of God has a finite life span? A sunset clause? Huh?

Its called a "Get out of Gaol, free" card, Aussie... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged