sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 13
th, 2016 at 6:34pm:
But that's just it isn't it? The religion was created 1400 years ago, based on a incredibly strange individual who was clearly a misogynist, and has never really had any proper reformation, so it's teachings that are 1400 years old are still being used in the modern world.
Mohammed was a product of his environment and was no more misogynist than most 13th century Arabian peninsular men, so trying to judge his views by our standards is rather difficult.
As for reformation, well there are arguments that Islam has undergone a constant renewal throughout it's history and the present conflict between the Sunnis and Sh'iate branches is one aspect of that. I have read arguments that perhaps al Q'aeda could be because of it's constant war on non-supporters actually part of that reformation today. Modernism exists and it does have followers within Islam.
Quote:And when we criticise this fact, the regressive left jumps up and down claiming it has nothing to do with Islam. Bullsh1t. This very fact is the exact reason why it has everything to do with the ideas of Islam. They are 1400 years old!! And Reformist muslims are being denied the chance to take on the reformation of Islam because everyone is trying to sugar coat the real reasons with "it's individual states. Or it's individual people. Or it's not Islam" etc etc.
You don't think you're looking at this from an outsider's perspective? I have reformist Muslim friends. Turkey underwent a reformation (of sorts) when the Caliphate was overthrown just before WWI and again when Attaturk came to power. I don't doubt from within Islam things look rather different to how you're portraying them.
Quote:I never said Quran demands totalitarian state, I'm saying the teachings is Islam are anti liberal and no proper leftist should stand around defending them, for the the sake of being nice, or for fear of being labeled a rascist.
Yet Islam has, at various times, been very liberal in it's attitudes towards other religions and other societies. Leftists is a convenient label and as far as I can tell you're talking bullshit yourself about what Leftists believe, think or do about Islam. Personally, I believe Muslims must figure out how to reform their own religion. All the bombarding them with demands to reform does is strengthen the conservatives and the Islamists, driving the moderates deeper underground.
Quote:Marxism has not really had much influence in the ideology of the current fascists in the Middle East. But the fascism of Europe during ww2 did, sure. The problem is it encouraged the creation of fascism regimes based on Islamic teachings, and the west never eradicated it as we did with nazism, Japanese empiralism, etc. except now we have regressive leftists telling us it's all fine and to criticise a state using sharia law is islamaphobic.
Again, I'd recommend you do further reading. In particular look at the histories of Iran/Iraq/Syria/Egypt/Libya and then get back to us about what little supposed influence Marxism had on those nations' development in the 20th century.
Except most views of 13th century misogynistic men are no longer used as some kind of ideology to follow, other than Mohammeds. In which case how can I not judge the "prophet" other than by today's standards? All religious Islamic states judge his word as the word to being a good muslim, and have implemented state laws around it. If you agree that he is a 13th century barbarian than you should agree Islam is not fit for today's day and age, and MUST change. In which case, your claim that Islam has reformed is bullshit because you don't see the same challenges to the "literal" word as we have had in Christianity and in Judaism.
As for demanding reform, what you say is typical regressive leftism. If you believe in universal human rights than it isn't just up to Muslims to reform their own religion, but up to us to help the reformers and to ensure that it happens. Universal human rights are not just for the lucky white and we get to seat around and say "you can have it too if you work at it, but we won't demand it." Universal human rights are just that: universal. All of us must fight for them and if we see problems, from which people can barely escape from I might add, then it isn't right to seat back and say "don't interfere, it's not our problem." That's how we got to suddam Hussein killing millions while the world sat around in its pathetic pacifist state. And it's the same with Islam: it isn't just up to Muslims to stop their religion being interpreted to mean a raped woman should be flogged. It's up to all of us to ensure that doesn't happen as it's obviously against universal human rights. Hence, those who don't stand up are the regressive left, who accept the problems in Islam and don't wish to interfere for the sake of offending or seeming to be the "white supremist".
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