sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 3:45pm:



I see.

Quote:


It might have been good, or the columnist could have referred to Aly's columns where he has addressed just this.

It's all good, no?

Karnal wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 3:53pm:

Backstepping in his columns is not addressing.

Oh FGS, the OLD Testament is the Hebrew "Bible" it existed before Christianity.  The teachings of Christ...  Christianity exists in the NEW Testament.

Karnal wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 4:01pm:

Read his book, karnal.  He loves it.

I'm not sure what you're reading/hearing, Alevine. Aly talks about anti-liberalism - and liberalism - within Islam all the time.

He's talked extensively about the history of Islam, Islam's fundamentalism and the causes of this. I've heard most of this on the radio - long chats between two academics about this very topic. I can't quote it.

Aly is free to be a Muslim and have his views because he's more informed about his views than most. So is Robert Fisk. Both have an extensive understanding of Middle Eastern and global politics, so are entitled to avoid idiotic, black and white caricatures of Muslims.

When I read or hear something, I'm interested in hearing something I haven't heard before - a new idea, a new take, a new set of facts. I'm not interested in frothing at the mouth over the same old krap. With Fisk and Aly you get intelligent, accurate insight - as your OP says about the Aly/Manne interview.

I'm free to form my own judgments and froth at the mouth if I want.

I don't think you're happy unless you're reading vitriolic, angry rants, Alevine - hence my curiosity over what happened to you. You seem to have lost your curiosity, your thirst for knowledge and even your sense of humour. You seem to have formed an attachment to blunt clichés, hence your newfound hyperbole - apologist, traitor, evil.

In life, nothing is this simple. After a shock or loss, we sometimes prefer this, but when it wears off, we understand that things are not always as they seem. We might never deal with our confusion, but we learn to accept it, and this is the source of all strength.

Karnal wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 5:05pm:


Yes, insight from Robert Fisk is that Osama bin laden was a hero and a misunderstood individual who was justified in his attacks because it was all the US fault.  With Aly, aside from him talking about Isis I have not once heard him talking about the ideas of Islam, and I used to frequently
Listen to him on his radio shows, read his columns, etc.  you can't seem to provide an example, karnal?

And I'm not reading angry rants karnal. Here's the difference between me and you: I've read the people you have and I've also read people who you refuse to read.  Read Sam Harris. Read Shiraz maher.  Read nick Cohen.  Perhaps you'll understand that no one is ACTUALLY doing angry rants, but rather are offering a rational discussion that happens to be critical on the ideas of Islam.  It's not painting all Muslims with the same paint, all that it is doing is reviewing an ideology and offering critique on it.  Why is this out of bounds in your world??

Quote:


That's what I mean. Fisk has said no such thing, but you've turned his views into a dumb caricature.

This is a problem with your thinking, not Fisk's.

Aly and Stephens have talked extensively about the sources for jihadism within Islam. I've heard Aly interview Muslim fundamentalists on his old Drive show and tear through them. I've heard him do the same to knuckleheads. He knows the texts, their history, and has his own views on them.

If you truly think Fisk has ever said the above (and I don't believe you do), I'm not surprised you've listened to Aly and not heard a work he's said.