Australian Politics Forum - The truth about "islamaphobia"

Grendel

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #285 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:01pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 6:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 5:56pm:

Aly is still an apologist, perhaps that Muslims must stick with muslims creed affects his outlook more than he thinks, perhaps it also skews your outlook also.

Fisk is an idiot at times and absolute idiot. He has rare useful insights, but mostly he's an idiot.

Just because you disagree with someone does not necessarily make them an, "apologist" for a different viewpoint. As Aly and Fisk have first hand experience which you sadly lack rather suggests their viewpoint is a great deal more valid than yours, based as it is on bigotry and prejudice, Grendel. Roll Eyes

You mean like you don't have first hand experience of most of what happens in the world bwian?
Like you have no first hand experience with hanson or One nation...

let me know if you need help getting that foot out of your mouth.
Grin

oh and bwian, keep your bigotry and prejudice to yourself, I don't have any, TROLL.... Cheesy

Don't edit my posts bwian... face the truth you disingenuous bigoted hypocrite.

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Grendel

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #286 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:04pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:52pm:

https://sharinhislove.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/israelite-kingdomsauldavidsolo...

Taken from a Jewish website, yeas Grendel?

Were they drawing aerial maps 3000 years ago?

When was that map drawn Grendel?

Aerial maps from 3000 years ago? I don't know Aussie where do you suppose they are? Has anyone told you the lines don't actually appear on the ground?
Grin

How do you suppose we know where any ancient kingdoms were... like Babylon, Sparta or Mesopotamia? Roll Eyes

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Aussie

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #287 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:04pm

Frank wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

You mean like the Israelis have? I mean, founding their state on the basis of membership of the Jewish faith.

It's not a faith, Brian, it's a blood covenant.

Not racist, of course. Blood covenants are not a race.

Muslims wanting an ummah - good.
Jews wanting a Jewish state - sinister blood covenant.

No wonder you clowns are not taken seriously. You are idiots with internetz access.

Fine.....but why did we, in 1948, plonk it in the middle of Arabia? Was there no other alternative or was this some land rights claim being settled by fools.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #288 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:08pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 6:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 4:44pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 4:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 9:23pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 7:54pm:

And what does the US have to be blamed for in the Middle East?

The creation and fostering of numerous right-wing authoritarian regimes based on oil-wealth which they aid through their over-dependence on Middle-Eastern oil?

The creation and fostering of a right-wing authoritarian regime in Israel, a nation which they may not be directly responsible for the creation of, they are responsible for it's ongoing existence.

The creation of several anti-Soviet and Terrorist groups during the Cold War which have lingered and now are in open opposition to the US's own stated policy positions in SW Asia and the Middle-East.

That's just a few of their sins... Roll Eyes

. I love that you actually feel you can call others ignorant. Anyway, Let me entertain your propositions for this purpose and let me ask you, let's say it's true that Te US "created" terrorist groups and authoritarian governments, is it also the uS that told them all to follow interpretations of Islam that are anti liberal in every way? Or did that part come about because Islam allows itself to be interpreted in such a manner that denies people their basic human rights?

Look up the history of the Taliban. It is primarily a creation of the CIA and the Pakistani ISI. They gave them free copies of the K'ran and encouraged them to read and follow it's example as a means to liberate Afghanistan. The CIA has a long history of using religion to motivate it's various resistance groups in Vietnam/Laos/Tibet/Italy and the already mentioned Afghanistan.

Quote:

And also - do you believe Israel has a right to exist as a state?

I am on record here as supporting it's existence as a state. What is done cannot easily be undone. I just wish it had been established as a Multicultural/Multireligious state, rather than purely a Jewish one. Israel was the creation of the Zionists who sold the West the lie of "a people for an empty land". It wasn't empty, the Palestinians lived there. Roll Eyes

Israel is a secular state, so I'm not exactly sure what the hell youre talking about when it comes to Israel not being multicultural or multi religious.

The basis of Israeli citizenship is being a Jew. It is a Jewish state. Muslims and Christians are treated as a minority and suffer accordingly. Read up about the Israeli nationality law and get back to us, OK? Roll Eyes

Quote:

And thank you for showing that it is in fact the ideas of Islam that cause the fascist regimes.

*SIGH*, do you even know what "fascism" is? Roll Eyes

Where did the Taliban get their Q'rans from? The CIA and ISI. Therefore, ultimately the fault lies with the US and Pakistani governments.

Quote:

It doesn't matter who gave people the Koran, what matters is that after reading it they went nuts and created a crazy state founded on the basis of the religion. That's the actual cause and the actual problem, that Islam allows itself to be interpreted to such a fascist ideology.

You mean like the Israelis have? I mean, founding their state on the basis of membership of the Jewish faith.

What the Q'ran did, was inspire them when interpreted in a fundamentalist manner. Guess who established and funded the Madrassahs where that fundamentalism was taught? The CIA and the ISI. Roll Eyes

It must be that either you have a comprehension problem, or just don't know how to read. Yes, Jewish people can become citizens of Israel through right of return. But that's not the only method a person has to being naturalised, and citizenship is provided for people with permanent residency regardless of their religion. Now, let me ask you, can a Jewish person ever become a citizen in Saudi Arabia? Iran? Can they even enter the Gaza Strip without the high chance of being stoned to death by some Hamas terrorist?

And the causation isn't the handing of a book but the reading of the book. Unless you feel the book is so dangerous that it should never be read?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Aussie

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #289 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:08pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:04pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:52pm:

https://sharinhislove.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/israelite-kingdomsauldavidsolo...

Taken from a Jewish website, yeas Grendel?

Were they drawing aerial maps 3000 years ago?

When was that map drawn Grendel?

Aerial maps from 3000 years ago? I don't know Aussie where do you suppose they are? Has anyone told you the lines don't actually appear on the ground?
Grin

Don't obfuscate. If you are gonna bung up maps with lines drawn to support a proposition, it is only to be expected that others will challenge the credibility of said maps especially one taken from a Jewish website.

When was that map drawn Grendel? 3000 years ago, was it?

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Grendel

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #290 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:08pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:04pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

You mean like the Israelis have? I mean, founding their state on the basis of membership of the Jewish faith.

It's not a faith, Brian, it's a blood covenant.

Not racist, of course. Blood covenants are not a race.

Muslims wanting an ummah - good.
Jews wanting a Jewish state - sinister blood covenant.

No wonder you clowns are not taken seriously. You are idiots with internetz access.

Fine.....but why did we, in 1948, plonk it in the middle of Arabia? Was there no other alternative or was this some land rights claim being settled by fools.

Cant read maps eh Aussie?
Not a history student, failed Geography?

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Grendel

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #291 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:09pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:08pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:04pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:52pm:

https://sharinhislove.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/israelite-kingdomsauldavidsolo...

Taken from a Jewish website, yeas Grendel?

Were they drawing aerial maps 3000 years ago?

When was that map drawn Grendel?

Aerial maps from 3000 years ago? I don't know Aussie where do you suppose they are? Has anyone told you the lines don't actually appear on the ground?
Grin

Don't obfuscate. If you are gonna bung up maps with lines drawn to support a proposition, it is only to be expected that others will challenge the credibility of said maps especially one taken from a Jewish website.

When was that map drawn Grendel? 3000 years ago, was it?

You being obtuse on purpose now?

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Karnal

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #292 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:10pm

Frank wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:42pm:

You mean like the Israelis have? I mean, founding their state on the basis of membership of the Jewish faith.

It's not a faith, Brian, it's a blood covenant.

Not racist, of course. Blood covenants are not a race.

Muslims wanting an ummah - good.
Jews wanting a Jewish state - sinister blood covenant.

No wonder you clowns are not taken seriously. You are idiots with internetz access.

Oh, I'm sure Alevine will agree with you there, Frank.

Which Muslims want an Ummah, by the way?

I'm curious.

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Aussie Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 38847 Gender:	Re: The truth about "islamaphobia" Reply #293 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:11pm Quote: Cant read maps eh Aussie? Not a history student, failed Geography? "Stop wasting my time, Grendel."
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #294 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:11pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:50pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 7:38pm:

You don't seem to understand what is relevant or not relevant. The point is, Islamist fundamentalism in today's world does not exist because israel exists. It exists because the ideas can be interpreted and are being interpreted in such a manner. Israel not existing would not see the collapse of the Iranian Islamist regime. It would not see the collapse of Saudi Arabian regime. Or any of the North African regimes. Hamas would still impose its fundamentalist ideals on the palestineans. All of this would still occur. So sure, Israel might have been formed on the basis of a fundamentalist idea but what does that have anything to do with how Islam is??? Why is it so hard for you thick headed regressives to comprehend that the problem are the ideas and not the west or Israel? Stop coming up with such lame ass excuses karnal!

The PLO would not exist, except for the creation of Israel.
Hamas would not exist, except for the creation of Israel.
Hisballah would not exist, except for the creation of Israel.
al-Qaeda most probably would not exist, except for the creation if Israel.

So, four of the world's worst Terrorist organisations were created in reaction to what? The creation of the state of Israel.

You really do need some lessons in cause and effect, don't you? Roll Eyes

So you think they'll cease to exist the moment Israel ceases to exist? Also, why take in such fundamentalist ideas if their only problem is Israel? They believe their are being pure with Islam. They want that purity in their lands. It is this interpretation that is the problem and their actual cause, not Israel.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96444	Re: The truth about "islamaphobia" Reply #295 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:12pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:08pm: Yes, Jewish people can become citizens of Israel through right of return. How do you mean "return", Alevine? I'm curious.
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Aussie

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #296 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:12pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:08pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:04pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:59pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:52pm:

https://sharinhislove.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/israelite-kingdomsauldavidsolo...

Taken from a Jewish website, yeas Grendel?

Were they drawing aerial maps 3000 years ago?

When was that map drawn Grendel?

Aerial maps from 3000 years ago? I don't know Aussie where do you suppose they are? Has anyone told you the lines don't actually appear on the ground?
Grin

Don't obfuscate. If you are gonna bung up maps with lines drawn to support a proposition, it is only to be expected that others will challenge the credibility of said maps especially one taken from a Jewish website.

When was that map drawn Grendel? 3000 years ago, was it?

You being obtuse on purpose now?

Was the question too hard, Grendel?

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Brian Ross

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #297 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:13pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:01pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 6:41pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 15^th, 2016 at 9:17pm:

[quote author=grendel link=1468348328/203#203 date=1468569372]Aly is still an apologist, perhaps that Muslims must stick with muslims creed affects his outlook more than he thinks, perhaps it also skews your outlook also.

Fisk is an idiot at times and absolute idiot. He has rare useful insights, but mostly he's an idiot.

Just because you disagree with someone does not necessarily make them an, "apologist" for a different viewpoint. As Aly and Fisk have first hand experience which you sadly lack rather suggests their viewpoint is a great deal more valid than yours, based as it is on bigotry and prejudice, Grendel. Roll Eyes

You mean like you don't have first hand experience of most of what happens in the world bwian?

Of the Middle East and Islam? No, I don't. Do you, Grendel have more first hand experience of the Middle East and Islam than Walid Aly and Robert Fisk? Really? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #298 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:58pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 9:45pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 6:45pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 6:38pm:

Quote:

And if we take israel out we are still left with the nastiest bastard fascist regimes in the ME.

Yeas, I know, and I don't care. Do you?

Anyone person believing in universal human rights should. Israel has nothing to do with the fundamentalism that exists in the middle east.

Really? Yet the Fundamentalists always point to Israel as their bête noire... Roll Eyes

And then go and kill anyone and everyone anyway. Aha.

You obviously understand little of the strategic thinking behind Terrorism, don't you? Roll Eyes

What's the strategy, Ahmed Ross? You obviously have some Doctor of Divinity insight into the Muslim terrorism psyche. Tell us, Brian. Why do they do it? What do they/you want to achieve by terrorising, undermining, constantly diminishing Western values and culture? What is you purpose, Brian? Why do you do it??

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Brian Ross

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Re: The truth about "islamaphobia"
Reply #299 - Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:17pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 10:08pm:

It must be that either you have a comprehension problem, or just don't know how to read. Yes, Jewish people can become citizens of Israel through right of return. But that's not the only method a person has to being naturalised, and citizenship is provided for people with permanent residency regardless of their religion. Now, let me ask you, can a Jewish person ever become a citizen in Saudi Arabia? Iran? Can they even enter the Gaza Strip without the high chance of being stoned to death by some Hamas terrorist?

Ever consider that is the right of those nations to create their citizenship laws how they wish?

I personally, don't have a problem with the Israelis creating their citizenship on the basis of their religious beliefs BUT I do have a problem when an ignorant person such as yourself claims the reverse.

You can become a citizen of Israel automatically if you are a Jew. If you are Christian or a Muslim or an atheist, you have to apply to become a citizen. Even if you were born in Israel. So, there is no automatic citizenship, except for Jews. Doesn't seem particularly fair, now does it? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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