mothra wrote on Jul 17
th, 2016 at 12:39am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17
th, 2016 at 12:25am:
mothra wrote on Jul 17
th, 2016 at 12:16am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17
th, 2016 at 12:11am:
mothra wrote on Jul 17
th, 2016 at 12:07am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16
th, 2016 at 11:14pm:
Yeh but you don't look at the real causes, and use bad data, mothra. That much we know.
Rubbish. Do you know how many Muslims are fighting the treatment of women in Islamic countries?
Change will come from within.
I'm sure it won't, mothra. Let me ask you, if the situation was so dire and you had no way out would you want people to come and help you or would you want them to say, "change will come from within. In the meantime, no criticisms, let's instead come up with a nifty term for anyone who stands against the aggressors... Islamaphobia."
Look what war has done Alevine.
Do you propose we go to war with the Indonesians over human rights violations in West Papua? What would that solve? Into Africa? North Korea? South America? Where do you want people defended?
The Middle East is as buggered as it is because of decades of aggression. It's splintered beyond hope.
Well let's start with the regressive left. Let's start with the regressive left understanding the actual problems and the cause of the problems. Let's start with the regressive left actually supporting the right people. Let's stop the regressive left from being afraid of being critical of very very bad ideas. And let's have the regressive left stop pretending that everything is the fault of the West.
Maybe we can make a difference by actually standing up against the aggressors, and not being afraid of criticising them? Can we agree to this? Can we agree that it isn't islamaphobic to call out the anti women views being portrayed through Islam? Can we admit that it isn't islamaphobia to call out anti freedom of speech that Islamic ideas, as currently interpreted, represent? Can we admit that it isn't islamaphobia to stand up with "apostates" and question why someone should die simply because they don't believe anymore.
Let's start here. And if this fails, then let's look at what remaining alternatives are left. But I don't think "change from within" without assistance is going to do much. Nor do I think that lighting candles and having vigils after every attack does any good either.
'll just pretend that because you're fired up, you didn't mean to be as condescending as you just were.
You don't seem to understand the left. It is through the left that voices of dissent are getting out. It is because of the left we have the awareness that we do.
And there is a big difference between being critical of repressive regimes and being an Islamophobe.
See, you qualify as an Islamophobe because you keep referring to Islam and Muslims, as though they were a homogeneous blob. Most Muslims translate the Quran peacefully.
So what is the difference, Alevine, to those that translate the Quran peacefully to those that don't. And why did thse that don't stop doing so, By and large they once did.
What changed?
It is in these questions i am interested. Not just claiming a religion that is largely peacefull is responsible.
You're still failing the comprehension test mothra, and I'm not sure why. The Islamic regimes get their beliefs from somewhere, which is from Islam. When we criticise Islam, we criticise the IDEAS. Of course there are Muslims who are peaceful, but that's irrelevant as just because people believe in something doesn't mean I can criticise that belief. It is NOT islamaphobic to criticise Islam. Like I've said before, it's exactly the same as you saying "don't criticise soviet communism because many Russians were peaceful." It's the ideas from soviet communism that were criticised. It's the same here.
And I will be condescending to vigil holders because it's disturbing that every time an attack happens all we've seen to respond with are hashtags, posters of love signs and vigils. How exactly is this going to stop barbaric Islamic terrorism? A candle doesn't stop a truck.
Finally, I understand the left a lot better than you which is why it's so upsetting to see it fall so low and be overtaken by pacifist apologists (like Robert Fisk for instance). You aren't giving a voice to people who are feeling the problems of Islam. Why? Because each time you get all flustered and start yelling islamaphobia, you let an islamic dictator have another day in power. It was the left that won ww2. It was the left that got women the vote. It was the left that got civil liberties for all minorities. And how? By speaking out and not caring about who may become offended. The problem is your left has forgotten this with Islam, and it's because you see Muslim people as a minority in our community and hence its out of bounds to "offend". White man can't tell minority what is wrong, according to you, and the resident doctor of divinity. Except that's bullsh1t and once you get past this you're welcome to join the real left once again.
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