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Rush to Wind a bad move. (Read 2092 times)
Grendel
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Rush to Wind a bad move.
Jul 16th, 2016 at 6:02pm
 
Well we all know the Greens and Di Natale, keep pushing the crap that Green power is the way to go, that it brings more jobs to replace the old jobs etc...  Those of us who poo-pooed these claims and the ability of wind to replace cheaper coal power as base load capable etc, etc... are right.
Quote:
Warning of energy crisis to hit the nation
The Australian
July 16, 2016
Michael Owen

An energy crisis in South Australia created by an over-reliance on untrustworthy and expensive wind and solar will force the state Labor government to seek greater access to cheaper coal-fired electricity from the eastern states.

This comes amid rising concern that federal renewable ­energy targets will force other states down the path taken by South Australia, which has the highest and most variable energy prices in the national electricity grid.

South Australian Treasurer Tom Koutsantonis, who is also the Energy Minister, yesterday put the eastern states on notice, vowing to “smash the national electricity market into a thousand pieces and start again”.

He warned other states that the energy crisis was “coming to get them”.

“This is coming to Victoria, this is coming to NSW ... every jurisdiction is facing what we’re facing now,” the Treasurer said.

South Australian Labor’s ­admission that it needed urgent reform of the national energy market rules, so that in addition to upgrading connection with Victoria it also could tap into NSW baseload power, reveals the vulnerability of its reliance on ­renewables. The last coal-fired power stations in South Australia closed in May.

Wind and solar make up more than 40 per cent of the state’s ­energy mix under a green policy agenda driven by Labor, in power in South Australia since 2002.

Several major companies, ­including BHP Billiton and Arrium, this week warned Mr Koutsantonis of possible shutdowns because of high energy prices, forcing him to plead for a temporary power spike from a private owner of a mothballed gas-fired power plant. Private energy supplier ENGIE fired up its Pelican Point plant near Port Adelaide for a short time yesterday, bringing an extra 239 megawatts of power into the grid.

Mr Koutsantonis said the federal government had encouraged South Australia, which has the best conditions for wind farms, to chase the energy source as part of Australia’s renewable energy target of about 24 per cent by 2020.

“Wind is paid by the commonwealth to produce power ... if you are going to pay wind farms to produce electricity regardless of demand, you better make sure that is distributed equally across the country because you can’t have a national policy implicating just one state,” he said.

He called on Malcolm Turnbull to immediately appoint an energy minister and schedule an urgent meeting of federal and state ministers to undertake ­energy market reform.

“If you want a true national electricity market, you really need to have all of the states interconnected.

“What we have is a series of state-based markets with very poor interconnection between them,’’ Mr Koutsantonis said.

The market was supposed to integrate the east coast states with South Australia and Tasmania to allow the free flow of electricity across borders via a ­series of interconnecters, he said. It excludes West Australia and the Northern Territory.

An upgraded interconnecter with Victoria is scheduled for completion next month, and South Australia also wants a larger interconnecter with NSW, at a cost of between $300 million and $700m.

“Victoria has multiple markets it can draw from; we have one, NSW has two and Queensland has one. That’s not a national electricity market,” he said.

Right so SA wants us all to share the renewable burden and higher electricity prices....  in NSW if our electricity prices go up much more we'll all be living back in the stoneage.
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Grendel
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #1 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 6:08pm
 
Quote:
Rush to wind forcing power prices up, say SA Liberals
The Australian
July 15, 2016
Michael Owen

The traditional manufacturing state of South Australia, with the worst jobless rate in the country, is paying the highest ­prices in the national electricity market.

South Australia’s lack of access to low-cost coal, an exposure to higher wholesale gas prices and an absence of competition in conventional power generation was to blame, analysts said.

The state’s Liberal oppos­ition has pointed the finger at the Labor’s government’s “overzealous rush into wind power” that it said was driving base-load electricity providers out of the market, pointing to the closure this year of the coal-fired Port Augusta power stations.

Soaring electricity prices in South Australia have seen up to 10 major manufacturers, including BHP Billiton, Arrium and Nyrstar, approach Treasurer Tom Koutsantonis to warn of production shutdowns unless the government intervened.

As a result, an extra 239 megawatts of power will come on line from today after private energy supplier Engie agreed to fire up a previously mothballed generator at Pelican Point, near Port Adelaide.

Spot power prices for South Australia have risen to more than seven times that of the Victorian price and almost eight that in NSW during the past week.

Mr Koutsantonis said yesterday the energy crisis had arisen because of a shortage of electricity being supplied to the state through an interconnector with Victoria, compounded by a ­planned outage at the Heywood Interconnector for upgrade work, higher gas prices and wild storms.

“A confluence of remarkable events has led to incredible volatility in the spot market over ­recent days, which has resulted in higher electricity prices and put pressure on South Australian businesses, some of whom have raised their concerns with me,” he said.

“Engie has brought addition­al generation at Pelican Point ­online after I approached them with the request. No amount has been paid to Engie to increase generation.”

Mr Koutsantonis said the situation was “another example of the failure of the so-called national energy market”.

The state had allocated $500,000 in last week’s budget for a feasibility study into greater inter­connection of energy supply between South Australia and the eastern states, and asked the federal government to assist, he said.

This came as South Australia’s unemployment rate surged to 7 per cent last month, well above the 5.8 per cent national rate.

Business SA and the opposition said a lack of power security, stab­ility and price competitiveness would only lengthen job queues.

“If there are manufacturers that are considering South Australia and looking at another state where it is more cost-competitive, then they’re going to go there,” Business SA’s Anthony Penney said yesterday. “Businesses in this state, particularly our manufacturers, our energy intensive industries, have been telling us for a while that energy prices are getting out of control.

“Right now, renewables in South Australia make up over 40 per cent of the energy, without the technology to effectively store the power being generated.”

Australian Energy Regulator data shows power prices in South Australia during the next two years will be 34 per cent higher than the national average and 69 per cent higher than Victoria.

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Bam
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #2 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 7:32pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2016 at 6:02pm:
Well we all know the Greens and Di Natale, keep pushing the crap that Green power is the way to go, that it brings more jobs to replace the old jobs etc...  Those of us who poo-pooed these claims and the ability of wind to replace cheaper coal power as base load capable etc, etc... are right.

Can you provide a link to support this assertion? I don't accept the premise that the Greens - or anyone else in Federal politics - is making the specific claim that wind power on its own is capable of base load power in Australia.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #3 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 11:50pm
 
The Australian is a completely committed backer of fossil fuels.   For Wind to be considered untrustworthy, is to ignore the several thousands years we have used it...    Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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bogarde73
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #4 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 7:47am
 
Surely coal is one of our competitive advantages, especially in relation to power generation, while renewables only survive on the back of huge subsidies.
And the consumer and business pay for the dreams of a handful of voters.
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miketrees
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #5 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 8:05am
 
survive on the back of huge subsidies

I think being able to dump CO2 without a cost is a subsidy
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Dnarever
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #6 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 8:45am
 
Yes power privatisation is a wonderful thing ????
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Bam
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #7 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 10:51am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jul 17th, 2016 at 7:47am:
Surely coal is one of our competitive advantages, especially in relation to power generation, while renewables only survive on the back of huge subsidies.
And the consumer and business pay for the dreams of a handful of voters.

It is disingenuous to be complaining about subsidies for renewable energy when we spend billions in Australia each year subsidising fossil fuels. A balanced discussion must acknowledge this fact.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Bam
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #8 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 10:52am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jul 17th, 2016 at 7:47am:
Surely coal is one of our competitive advantages

Leave the coal in the ground. We will need it in about 50,000 to 100,000 years when we need to stave off the next ice age.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Grendel
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #9 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 11:20am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16th, 2016 at 11:50pm:
The Australian is a completely committed backer of fossil fuels.   For Wind to be considered untrustworthy, is to ignore the several thousands years we have used it...    Roll Eyes

Really bwian imagine you shooting the messenger and ignoring the facts...

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Grendel
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #10 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 11:21am
 
Bam wrote on Jul 17th, 2016 at 10:52am:
bogarde73 wrote on Jul 17th, 2016 at 7:47am:
Surely coal is one of our competitive advantages

Leave the coal in the ground. We will need it in about 50,000 to 100,000 years when we need to stave off the next ice age.

Actually we are due for an ice age about now bam aren't we?
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lee
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #11 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 11:38am
 
Bam wrote on Jul 17th, 2016 at 10:51am:
It is disingenuous to be complaining about subsidies for renewable energy when we spend billions in Australia each year subsidising fossil fuels. A balanced discussion must acknowledge this fact.



What are these "subsidies"? The things the IMF call subsidies? Those things that are counted towards deductions like capital allowances, depreciation? Can't renewables be accused of using these "subsidies" too?
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lee
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #12 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 11:41am
 
miketrees wrote on Jul 17th, 2016 at 8:05am:
survive on the back of huge subsidies

I think being able to dump CO2 without a cost is a subsidy


You mean that same CO2 that is being given to grower for free?
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juliar
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #13 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 2:05pm
 
Greenies in denial again.

SA and Tassie are testament to the Greenies sabotaging stupidity.

Today the Greenies are an endangered species headed towards extinction.

Their ONLY supporters are the inner city queers and drug addicts.

Once during Bob Brown's days the Greenies stood for trees and endangered cane toads and rabbits and things.

Today the Greenies are just puppets of the United Nations trying to push the UN One World Govt and Agenda 21 rubbish.

The carbon dioxide rubbish is now well proven to be just a GIGANTIC HOAX designed to fraudulently get money for the UN.

Windy turbines are an expensive high maintenance bird killing monstrosity which is inefficient and unreliable and CANNOT support heavy industry which requires reliable 24/7 power. And who pays to replace them when they wear out in about 20 years ?

Now you all know why the Greenies keep trying to close down all the heavy industry in Australia.

How will SA build the subs without reliable electric power ? The slimy Greenies want SA to lose the sub building contract and they want to close the steel manufacturing in Whyalla.

The Greenies are just obtuse vermin that needs to be exterminated real soon.
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bogarde73
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Re: Rush to Wind a bad move.
Reply #14 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 2:21pm
 
lee wrote on Jul 17th, 2016 at 11:38am:
Bam wrote on Jul 17th, 2016 at 10:51am:
It is disingenuous to be complaining about subsidies for renewable energy when we spend billions in Australia each year subsidising fossil fuels. A balanced discussion must acknowledge this fact.



What are these "subsidies"? The things the IMF call subsidies? Those things that are counted towards deductions like capital allowances, depreciation? Can't renewables be accused of using these "subsidies" too?


Is this for real? They describe normal business expenses (& therefore tax deductions) as "subsidies"?
When did these bodies like the IMF fall under the control of the left-wing and when can they be returned to the management of sensible people?
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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.
 
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