Australian Politics Forum - Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!

longweekend58

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #60 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:40pm

rhino wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:19am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:15am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:02am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:02am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 9:31am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 9:22am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 9:16am:

Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!

Nice to see Longy all excited to finally have what half the third world has had for a decade. There is another topic talking about 4 year terms and future planning. Here we have a claim that we should be pleased to have spent billions to catch up to the bottom of the pack.

We are finally only 15 years behind with our internet technology, That is correct we lag the world by around 15 years and our country is not going to be competitive in the technical market place .

please point me to the list of THIRD WORLD countries that had 100/40 internet in 2006.

And the basic failure of your argument is the notion that economic output is dependent on RESIDENTIAL internet. How much economic activity is generated int he family home? PRECIOUS LITTLE. And if you think medium to large business has been operating on ADSL for the past ten years then you are delusional. They have had fibre connections for a very long time. They paid for them.

And now actually having superfast internet it is 'fun', but getting my android apps in 5 seconds instead of 2 minutes means what exactly? My emails are no faster - since they were already fast. Sites like this are still relatively slow. piratebay is much faster and presumably, porn is faster too. And if I used netflix that would probably be faster as well. so what?

The irony is that FTTN is delivering virtually the exact same speed that FTTH was and yet you criticse the former and laud the latter.

your political persuasions are overwhelming your ability to think.

10% of what you say is correct in a narrow minded sort of short sighted way.

I know a bit about fibre as do you so I know you business comments are founded but you fail to consider future business models. For example I currently support 200 plus employees working from home. There business related home internet speed requirements are genuine. This may well be the way of the future for many people and that is just one example.

and if you are working from home, why should the government provide the infrastructure to support that? As someone who has worked from home for most of my career, it is pretty easy to manage things. Imagine what it was like before internet? Yep, we all did it quite fine.

if you 200 employees want to work from home then either they or their employer is responsible for the infrastructure - just as they would be in the office. If the inernet is not fast enough then either pay to get it faster or... WORK IN THE OFFICE.

and why is there this pretence that working from home is an economic boom compared to working the the office?

And there is the other IT phenomenon that 'work increases to fill the current capacity'. Hard drives increase by an order magnitude and suddenly software sizes increase by... an order of magnitude. when I had dial-up internet, websites still loaded and printer drivers were 2Mb tops. Now, they can be 200-300Mb.

Tell me why FTTN wont serve your stay-at-home workers while FTTH would. the increase in speed id negligible to non-existent.

Yes it is adequate for today - still short sighted I see.

and if you are working from home, why should the government provide the infrastructure to support that?

Because the went to elections promising that they would ?

Besides telecommunications providers have always provided the necessary infrastructure to the home in support of the service they provide.

These clowns are rolling out a technology that was past its use by date around 2005 and they are in places using infrastructure over head cables which was recognised as being defunct in about 1948 to support it. Most of our competitors around the world have been implementing far superior technology which is the reason that we dropped from about 30th in the world to 60th for internet speed under the Liberal government.

And there is the other IT phenomenon that 'work increases to fill the current capacity'. Hard drives increase by an order magnitude and suddenly software sizes increase by... an order of magnitude

You shoot yourself in the foot here when you understand what this means for Australia. Yes we will fins a use for the additional capacity - but the many countries that have a higher speed will find a greater advantage, they will be able to do the things that we can't.

I dont recall telecom providers offering to wire up my house and provide a phone for free. Just like power, gas, water and sewerage services, the suppliers run it past your house and YOU pay to be connected to it plus all the wiring or plumbing etc. And in places like gas where it might not even go pat your house, you get to pay for the distance from the main to your house as well.

well no, thats completely wrong. (again)

all without any support or evidence.

Beating you in debate is like debating with a petulant child.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #61 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:45pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:53am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

... wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:18am:

If the governmemt facilitates working from home, they save money on roads and congestion issues.

The company I am with saved the rental cost on two floors of two buildings.

and now spends it time complaining that the govt wont pay all the costs of sending employees to work in another location.

Not relevant but the more key employees are provided with the infrastructure at company expense, my comment isn't about paying the costs. This was only brought up as one example of the reality of internet usage.

The reality is that today not having adequate internet can effectively lock people out of viable employment opportunities and this will only get worse.

That is garbage. If you read the spam email you would think that there are millions of work-at-ho sales jobs where all u need is internet and to provide XYZ company with your banking details. The truth is that 99.5% of jobs are done on site. If you aer one of the few with inadequate internet then bad luck. that 0.5% of jobs isnt available to you. But I bet that identical job IS available in the companys office.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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philperth2010

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #62 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 1:01pm

Nodes need power which optic fibre does not, Nodes require a greater need for maintenance compared to optic fibre, The copper used in the MTM is prone to corrosion and fails when the pits get flooded which optic fibre is not, the Coalitions NBN requires technicians to be qualified in multiple technologies, The only reason the NBN can deliver higher speed is because of the use of optic fibre and the Coalitions NBN will be obsolete before it is finished!!!

The argument that new technology will make optic fibre obsolete is a false premise because even if the technology is available in the future optic fibre would not need to be replaced any where near as soon as the much inferior copper, HFC network....Optic fibre will deliver the best available network for many decades and will not need to be replaced even if a better technology is available....You do not build a network to accommodate the present needs of consumers you built it to accommodate the future needs of consumers so its upgrade can be prolonged as long as possible....In every respect the Coalitions NBN is inferior and will require much higher costs to maintain and operate....We have been sold a dog!!!

Angry

PS - Your title should read "Turnbull NBN an absolute winner" not very good from someone who claims to be a writer....Just sayin!!!

Wink

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« Last Edit: Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 1:13pm by philperth2010 »

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58163 Here Gender:	Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!! Reply #63 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 3:03pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:40pm: rhino wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:19am: well no, thats completely wrong. (again) all without any support or evidence. Beating you in debate is like debating with a petulant child But he is in fact correct.
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Dnarever

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #64 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 3:07pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:53am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

... wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:18am:

If the governmemt facilitates working from home, they save money on roads and congestion issues.

The company I am with saved the rental cost on two floors of two buildings.

and now spends it time complaining that the govt wont pay all the costs of sending employees to work in another location.

Not relevant but the more key employees are provided with the infrastructure at company expense, my comment isn't about paying the costs. This was only brought up as one example of the reality of internet usage.

The reality is that today not having adequate internet can effectively lock people out of viable employment opportunities and this will only get worse.

That is garbage. If you read the spam email you would think that there are millions of work-at-ho sales jobs where all u need is internet and to provide XYZ company with your banking details. The truth is that 99.5% of jobs are done on site. If you aer one of the few with inadequate internet then bad luck. that 0.5% of jobs isnt available to you. But I bet that identical job IS available in the companys office.

You seem to point blank refuse to consider the future = You know the changes that this is meant to encourage and are probably unavoidable.

Becoming the worlds technological backwater is not a position to aspire too.

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longweekend58

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #65 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 4:27pm

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 1:01pm:

Nodes need power which optic fibre does not, Nodes require a greater need for maintenance compared to optic fibre, The copper used in the MTM is prone to corrosion and fails when the pits get flooded which optic fibre is not, the Coalitions NBN requires technicians to be qualified in multiple technologies, The only reason the NBN can deliver higher speed is because of the use of optic fibre and the Coalitions NBN will be obsolete before it is finished!!!

The argument that new technology will make optic fibre obsolete is a false premise because even if the technology is available in the future optic fibre would not need to be replaced any where near as soon as the much inferior copper, HFC network....Optic fibre will deliver the best available network for many decades and will not need to be replaced even if a better technology is available....You do not build a network to accommodate the present needs of consumers you built it to accommodate the future needs of consumers so its upgrade can be prolonged as long as possible....In every respect the Coalitions NBN is inferior and will require much higher costs to maintain and operate....We have been sold a dog!!!

Angry

PS - Your title should read "Turnbull NBN an absolute winner" not very good from someone who claims to be a writer....Just sayin!!!

Wink

The difference is the FTTN is cheaper and actually exists. FTTH was getting bogged down and so slow that it would be 203 before some got it.

But I love how the old argument was that FTTN simply WOULD NOT WORK. It was impossible for it to work. and the copper was all rotted so it couldnt work and yet... it works and works remarkably well.

Given the record of every criticism being wrong, why should anyone trust the rest of your argument? Personally I am waiting for 5G which is faster than both and doesnt need a wire/cable of any kind.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #66 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 4:33pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 3:07pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:53am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

... wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:18am:

If the governmemt facilitates working from home, they save money on roads and congestion issues.

The company I am with saved the rental cost on two floors of two buildings.

and now spends it time complaining that the govt wont pay all the costs of sending employees to work in another location.

Not relevant but the more key employees are provided with the infrastructure at company expense, my comment isn't about paying the costs. This was only brought up as one example of the reality of internet usage.

The reality is that today not having adequate internet can effectively lock people out of viable employment opportunities and this will only get worse.

That is garbage. If you read the spam email you would think that there are millions of work-at-ho sales jobs where all u need is internet and to provide XYZ company with your banking details. The truth is that 99.5% of jobs are done on site. If you aer one of the few with inadequate internet then bad luck. that 0.5% of jobs isnt available to you. But I bet that identical job IS available in the companys office.

You seem to point blank refuse to consider the future = You know the changes that this is meant to encourage and are probably unavoidable.

Becoming the worlds technological backwater is not a position to aspire too.

I consider the future quite often while you trot out a mantra. When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap, the NBN will be no more than a stranded asset. Or do you think that the fact that mobile phones have almost replaced land-lines is an unrepeatable experience?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Lobo

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #67 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 7:57pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 9:07am:

Lobo wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2016 at 4:55pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2016 at 2:44pm:

Lucky you for living <400 m from a node, with no other subscribers (yet). But... you see, 100/40 is all you are ever going to get.

I rounded mine up, just for longy....

24/5......

That's with a node approx. 500m away.
No fibre to the node.
And 43 year old copper....

poor diddums... when you get FTTN you too can get 100/40

Are you just naturally a freaking idiot, or did you study really hard to become one?
There is NO fibre connected to the node from the upstream side and only copper to my residence.
I used to think Macca was the biggest fool I had come across on here, and elsewhere, but you leave him for dead.
If you ever learn to read, and comprehend that which you are reading, get back to me.
In the meantime consider yourself on my 'Ignore List'.
You are not worth the effort.

OK, Andrei, how long have I copped?
No matter, the above just had to be said....

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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longweekend58

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #68 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:13pm

Lobo wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 7:57pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 9:07am:

Lobo wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2016 at 4:55pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2016 at 2:44pm:

Lucky you for living <400 m from a node, with no other subscribers (yet). But... you see, 100/40 is all you are ever going to get.

I rounded mine up, just for longy....

24/5......

That's with a node approx. 500m away.
No fibre to the node.
And 43 year old copper....

poor diddums... when you get FTTN you too can get 100/40

Are you just naturally a freaking idiot, or did you study really hard to become one?
There is NO fibre connected to the node from the upstream side and only copper to my residence.
I used to think Macca was the biggest fool I had come across on here, and elsewhere, but you leave him for dead.
If you ever learn to read, and comprehend that which you are reading, get back to me.
In the meantime consider yourself on my 'Ignore List'.
You are not worth the effort.

OK, Andrei, how long have I copped?
No matter, the above just had to be said....

I get 100/40 teamdope. And there is fibre to the node which is why it is called... FIBRE TO THE NODE I dont really caree if my 100/40 internet comes by carrier pigeon.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74257 Gender:	Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!! Reply #69 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:21pm Lobo wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 7:57pm: Are you just naturally a freaking idiot, or did you study really hard to become one? with longie it's a little from column A, and a little from column B
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Dnarever

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #70 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:23pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 4:33pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 3:07pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:45pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 12:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:53am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:31am:

... wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 11:18am:

If the governmemt facilitates working from home, they save money on roads and congestion issues.

The company I am with saved the rental cost on two floors of two buildings.

and now spends it time complaining that the govt wont pay all the costs of sending employees to work in another location.

Not relevant but the more key employees are provided with the infrastructure at company expense, my comment isn't about paying the costs. This was only brought up as one example of the reality of internet usage.

The reality is that today not having adequate internet can effectively lock people out of viable employment opportunities and this will only get worse.

That is garbage. If you read the spam email you would think that there are millions of work-at-ho sales jobs where all u need is internet and to provide XYZ company with your banking details. The truth is that 99.5% of jobs are done on site. If you aer one of the few with inadequate internet then bad luck. that 0.5% of jobs isnt available to you. But I bet that identical job IS available in the companys office.

You seem to point blank refuse to consider the future = You know the changes that this is meant to encourage and are probably unavoidable.

Becoming the worlds technological backwater is not a position to aspire too.

I consider the future quite often while you trot out a mantra. When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap, the NBN will be no more than a stranded asset. Or do you think that the fact that mobile phones have almost replaced land-lines is an unrepeatable experience?

When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap

Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.

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Setanta

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #71 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:34pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:

Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.

Wireless is endpoint because of the lack of spectrum for it to be anything else. You still need fibre as the core.

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Dnarever

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #72 - Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:39pm

Setanta wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:34pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:

Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.

Wireless is endpoint because of the lack of spectrum for it to be anything else. You still need fibre as the core.

I would hate to give the dopes any ideas but wireless from the node could probably work.

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Setanta

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #73 - Jul 24^th, 2016 at 1:15am

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:39pm:

Setanta wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:34pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:

Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.

Wireless is endpoint because of the lack of spectrum for it to be anything else. You still need fibre as the core.

I would hate to give the dopes any ideas but wireless from the node could probably work.

Not without severe degradation of service. How would you have 10, 20, 100 people on wireless from a node that has another node nearby? Wireless is endpoint. There is no way around that. There must be bandwidth from congested and outnumbered wireless back to fibre.

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Lobo

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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #74 - Jul 24^th, 2016 at 8:35am

John Smith wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 10:21pm:

Lobo wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2016 at 7:57pm:

Are you just naturally a freaking idiot, or did you study really hard to become one?

with longie it's a little from column A, and a little from column B**

**Inbreeding???

longwank doesn't appear to comprehend written English.

What is so hard to understand about "There is NO fibre connected to the node from the upstream side....?"

And I still believe his 100/40 is a load of bullshit.

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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