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Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!! (Read 5375 times)
longweekend58
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #75 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 9:09am  
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 4:33pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 3:07pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 12:45pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 12:04pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:53am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:31am:
... wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:18am:
If the governmemt facilitates working from home, they save money on roads and congestion issues.


The company I am with saved the rental cost on two floors of two buildings.



and now spends it time complaining that the govt wont pay all the costs of sending employees to work in another location.



Not relevant but the more key employees are provided with the infrastructure at company expense, my comment isn't about paying the costs. This was only brought up as one example of the reality of internet usage.

The reality is that today not having adequate internet can effectively lock people out of viable employment opportunities and this will only get worse.


That is garbage. If you read the spam email you would think that there are millions of work-at-ho sales jobs where all u need is internet and to provide XYZ company with your banking details. The truth is that 99.5% of jobs are done on site. If you aer one of the few with inadequate internet then bad luck. that 0.5% of jobs isnt available to you. But I bet that identical job IS available in the companys office.


You seem to point blank refuse to consider the future = You know the changes that this is meant to encourage and are probably unavoidable.

Becoming the worlds technological backwater is not a position to aspire too.


I consider the future quite often while you trot out a mantra. When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap, the NBN will be no more than a stranded asset. Or do you think that the fact that mobile phones have almost replaced land-lines is an unrepeatable experience?


When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap

Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.




you serisuoly think that your technological predictions are worth anything? Even the experts are routinely proven wrong. The laws of physics were supposed to put a downward limit on chip sizes due to electron tunneling and crossover and yet... they are smaller now. 5G was supposed to be virtually impossible and yet it currently exists in the lab.

I would hesitate to say that anything is impossible or a long way aaway. After all, there are now some neutrinos that exceed the speed of light.  This is of course, impossible.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #76 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:10am  
Setanta wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 1:15am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:39pm:
Setanta wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:34pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:
Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.



Wireless is endpoint because of the lack of spectrum for it to be anything else. You still need fibre as the core.


I would hate to give the dopes any ideas but wireless from the node could probably work.


Not without severe degradation of service. How would you have 10, 20, 100 people on wireless from a node that has another node nearby? Wireless is endpoint. There is no way around that. There must be bandwidth from congested and outnumbered wireless back to fibre.


With spectrum isolation design separation and directional transmission the same way the cmts works - by reusing the same frequencies across non adjacent cells.
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Dnarever
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #77 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:12am  
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 9:09am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 4:33pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 3:07pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 12:45pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 12:04pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:53am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:31am:
... wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:18am:
If the governmemt facilitates working from home, they save money on roads and congestion issues.


The company I am with saved the rental cost on two floors of two buildings.



and now spends it time complaining that the govt wont pay all the costs of sending employees to work in another location.



Not relevant but the more key employees are provided with the infrastructure at company expense, my comment isn't about paying the costs. This was only brought up as one example of the reality of internet usage.

The reality is that today not having adequate internet can effectively lock people out of viable employment opportunities and this will only get worse.


That is garbage. If you read the spam email you would think that there are millions of work-at-ho sales jobs where all u need is internet and to provide XYZ company with your banking details. The truth is that 99.5% of jobs are done on site. If you aer one of the few with inadequate internet then bad luck. that 0.5% of jobs isnt available to you. But I bet that identical job IS available in the companys office.


You seem to point blank refuse to consider the future = You know the changes that this is meant to encourage and are probably unavoidable.

Becoming the worlds technological backwater is not a position to aspire too.


I consider the future quite often while you trot out a mantra. When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap, the NBN will be no more than a stranded asset. Or do you think that the fact that mobile phones have almost replaced land-lines is an unrepeatable experience?


When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap

Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.




you serisuoly think that your technological predictions are worth anything? Even the experts are routinely proven wrong. The laws of physics were supposed to put a downward limit on chip sizes due to electron tunneling and crossover and yet... they are smaller now. 5G was supposed to be virtually impossible and yet it currently exists in the lab.

I would hesitate to say that anything is impossible or a long way aaway. After all, there are now some neutrinos that exceed the speed of light.  This is of course, impossible.


So you excuse for poor decision making today is pie in the sky predictions about future technology being delivered over a decade sooner than expected.
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philperth2010
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #78 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:31am  
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 4:27pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 1:01pm:
Nodes need power which optic fibre does not, Nodes require a greater need for maintenance compared to optic fibre, The copper used in the MTM is prone to corrosion and fails when the pits get flooded which optic fibre is not, the Coalitions NBN requires technicians to be qualified in multiple technologies, The only reason the NBN can deliver higher speed is because of the use of optic fibre and the Coalitions NBN will be obsolete before it is finished!!!

The argument that new technology will make optic fibre obsolete is a false premise because even if the technology is available in the future optic fibre would not need to be replaced any where near as soon as the much inferior copper, HFC network....Optic fibre will deliver the best available network for many decades and will not need to be replaced even if a better technology is available....You do not build a network to accommodate the present needs of consumers you built it to accommodate the future needs of consumers so its upgrade can be prolonged as long as possible....In every respect the Coalitions NBN is inferior and will require much higher costs to maintain and operate....We have been sold a dog!!!

Angry Angry Angry

PS - Your title should read "Turnbull NBN an absolute winner" not very good from someone who claims to be a writer....Just sayin!!!

Wink Wink Wink


The difference is the FTTN is cheaper and actually exists.  FTTH was getting bogged down and so slow that it would be 203 before some got it.

But I love how the old argument was that FTTN simply WOULD NOT WORK. It was impossible for it to work. and the copper was all rotted so it couldnt work and yet... it works and works remarkably well.

Given the record of every criticism being wrong, why should anyone trust the rest of your argument?  Personally I am waiting for 5G which is faster than both and doesn't need a wire/cable of any kind.


The contradiction and misrepresentation aside....The network would have still existed with optic fibre and ensured minimal upgrades as well as much lower operating and maintenance costs....The MTM will be better than the current network but it will not accommodate the potential of digital technology optic fibre would have achieved and will not return as much revenue due the unavailability to take advantage of the increased data some consumers will not have access to!!!

Angry Angry Angry
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John Smith
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #79 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:35am  
nothing but narrow short shortsightedness from longstupidone that will see us paying twice for what we should have gotten the first time around
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longweekend58
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #80 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:02pm  
Lobo wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:35am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:21pm:
Lobo wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 7:57pm:
Are you just naturally a freaking idiot, or did you study really hard to become one?



with longie it's a little from column A, and a little from column B**



**Inbreeding???

longwank doesn't appear to comprehend written English.

What is so hard to understand about "There is NO fibre connected to the node from the upstream side....?"

And I still believe his 100/40 is a load of bullshit.


if you are referring to 'upstream'  as the connection from the node to the backbone, it IS fibre hence the term FIBRE to the node.

and of course you dont believe I have 100/40 internet.  you simply cannot beleive ANYTHING that conflicts with your idotic conspiracy thinking.

idiot
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #81 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:05pm  
Dnarever wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:12am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 9:09am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 4:33pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 3:07pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 12:45pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 12:04pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:53am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:31am:
... wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 11:18am:
If the governmemt facilitates working from home, they save money on roads and congestion issues.


The company I am with saved the rental cost on two floors of two buildings.



and now spends it time complaining that the govt wont pay all the costs of sending employees to work in another location.



Not relevant but the more key employees are provided with the infrastructure at company expense, my comment isn't about paying the costs. This was only brought up as one example of the reality of internet usage.

The reality is that today not having adequate internet can effectively lock people out of viable employment opportunities and this will only get worse.


That is garbage. If you read the spam email you would think that there are millions of work-at-ho sales jobs where all u need is internet and to provide XYZ company with your banking details. The truth is that 99.5% of jobs are done on site. If you aer one of the few with inadequate internet then bad luck. that 0.5% of jobs isnt available to you. But I bet that identical job IS available in the companys office.


You seem to point blank refuse to consider the future = You know the changes that this is meant to encourage and are probably unavoidable.

Becoming the worlds technological backwater is not a position to aspire too.


I consider the future quite often while you trot out a mantra. When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap, the NBN will be no more than a stranded asset. Or do you think that the fact that mobile phones have almost replaced land-lines is an unrepeatable experience?


When wireless internet becomes super fast and super cheap

Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.




you serisuoly think that your technological predictions are worth anything? Even the experts are routinely proven wrong. The laws of physics were supposed to put a downward limit on chip sizes due to electron tunneling and crossover and yet... they are smaller now. 5G was supposed to be virtually impossible and yet it currently exists in the lab.

I would hesitate to say that anything is impossible or a long way aaway. After all, there are now some neutrinos that exceed the speed of light.  This is of course, impossible.


So you excuse for poor decision making today is pie in the sky predictions about future technology being delivered over a decade sooner than expected.



your definition of 'poor decision making' is seemingly dependent on no more than what you want. YOU want fiber, therefore  not getting fiber is a bad decision. No interest whatsoever in the logistics of the entire project nevermind the price.   And if gigabit internet becomes available I can connect fibre to the node and voila... of course I woudl need to have an actual NEED for it before I would spend MY money. But you are happy for the government to spend it for you.  THATS YOUR PROBLEM right there.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #82 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:11pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:05pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:12am:
So you excuse for poor decision making today is pie in the sky predictions about future technology being delivered over a decade sooner than expected.



your definition of 'poor decision making' is seemingly dependent on no more than what you want. YOU want fiber, therefore  not getting fiber is a bad decision. No interest whatsoever in the logistics of the entire project nevermind the price.   And if gigabit internet becomes available I can connect fibre to the node and voila... of course I woudl need to have an actual NEED for it before I would spend MY money. But you are happy for the government to spend it for you.  THATS YOUR PROBLEM right there.


No as stated it isn't about me and as difficult as it is to believe it isn't about you nor Andrei either. It is a fact that the full path fibre option is far superior and that fibre to the node is a short term option at best a very expensive substandard short term option  for Australia.

The question is are you happy having Australia remaining an internet back water in the world community, a place that will not be competitive in the technological market or most likely anywhere else.

You may be happy to see that happen porn boy but not me.
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longweekend58
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #83 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:29pm  
Dnarever wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:11pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:05pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:12am:
So you excuse for poor decision making today is pie in the sky predictions about future technology being delivered over a decade sooner than expected.



your definition of 'poor decision making' is seemingly dependent on no more than what you want. YOU want fiber, therefore  not getting fiber is a bad decision. No interest whatsoever in the logistics of the entire project nevermind the price.   And if gigabit internet becomes available I can connect fibre to the node and voila... of course I woudl need to have an actual NEED for it before I would spend MY money. But you are happy for the government to spend it for you.  THATS YOUR PROBLEM right there.


No as stated it isn't about me and as difficult as it is to believe it isn't about you nor Andrei either. It is a fact that the full path fibre option is far superior and that fibre to the node is a short term option at best a very expensive substandard short term option  for Australia.

The question is are you happy having Australia remaining an internet back water in the world community, a place that will not be competitive in the technological market or most likely anywhere else.

You may be happy to see that happen porn boy but not me.



Why do you think that 'superior' is the only criteria of any value in a govt purchasing choice?  Why buy only 12 subs when 50 would obviously be 'superior'? Why not buy 1000 fighter jets? That is superior than the number we have now or on order?  Why not build an 8 lane highway to every town and city in Australia? That is clearly superior and safer than what we have at present.

A) the cost is horrendous
B) the time to implement is multiple decades or more
C) there isnt a cost/benefit to justify it

Is Fiber superior? obviously. But it is far more expensive, far longer to implement and in then residential situation, unjustifable in terms of economic output.

And as previously stated, despite the IT wannabes on here, moving from FTTN to FTTH is not a case of ripping everything out and starting again. It is largely just connecting homes to the node via fiber and ultimately removeing the node. it is in fact a good way of getting super-fast internet NOW instead of 15 years down the track at double/triple the cost.

I suppose you drive a Bugatti Veyron right? Or a Porsche people mover or perhaps a Rolls Royce? They are all vastly superior than what you drive now. Why dont you own them?  the reason is the exact same one.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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John Smith
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #84 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:33pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:29pm:
But it is far more expensive, far longer to implement



rubbish ... libs 3rd rate FTN is almost as expensive, and not much quicker.

Face it, the libs only opposed FTH because it was labors policy.
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Setanta
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #85 - Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:34pm  
Dnarever wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 10:10am:
Setanta wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 1:15am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:39pm:
Setanta wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:34pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 23rd, 2016 at 10:23pm:
Not going to happen before the fibre to the node has to be fixed. wireless internet of anything like that quality is still 15 to 20 years away at best.



Wireless is endpoint because of the lack of spectrum for it to be anything else. You still need fibre as the core.


I would hate to give the dopes any ideas but wireless from the node could probably work.


Not without severe degradation of service. How would you have 10, 20, 100 people on wireless from a node that has another node nearby? Wireless is endpoint. There is no way around that. There must be bandwidth from congested and outnumbered wireless back to fibre.


With spectrum isolation design separation and directional transmission the same way the cmts works - by reusing the same frequencies across non adjacent cells.


Yes, just as you do for hotspots around a campus for eg. That does not change the limitations on bandwidth, only shares the load, the same thing will happen, the more that use that "spot" the less bandwidth you will get.

Let me put it this way, fibre is capable of full bandwidth, if you need more you lay more fibre. With wireless there is limited spectrum. You cannot add more. You can do tricks like trellis encoding, like we did with modems to get better than 2400 baud but the spectrum is still limited, it's why we don't use modems any more.

Wireless will probably never disappear like modems did simply because is't endpoint tech.

I can get more speed on wireless if I multiplex frequencies or channels, 1 and 3, 2 and 4 etc. The more channels I multiplex, the more data can be transferred but the less channels are available for use. Then you have interference from other spots, using different channels but at some point, you need to reuse, we have 11-13 channels for use. It is endpoint tech.
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« Last Edit: Jul 24th, 2016 at 11:04pm by Setanta »  
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #86 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 9:00am  
John Smith wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:33pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:29pm:
But it is far more expensive, far longer to implement



rubbish ... libs 3rd rate FTN is almost as expensive, and not much quicker.

Face it, the libs only opposed FTH because it was labors policy.



with ADSL I had 12mbps  Now I have ~100Mbs.  tell me again why it isnt faster sing your tortured mathematics?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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John Smith
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #87 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 9:17am  
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 9:00am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:33pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:29pm:
But it is far more expensive, far longer to implement



rubbish ... libs 3rd rate FTN is almost as expensive, and not much quicker.

Face it, the libs only opposed FTH because it was labors policy.



with ADSL I had 12mbps  Now I have ~100Mbs.  tell me again why it isnt faster sing your tortured mathematics?


put up a screen shot of your speed longdopeyone!
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Its time
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #88 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 9:28am  
21st century economy whilst keeping copper in ground

Grin Grin Grin
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longweekend58
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Re: Turnbull NBN a absolute winner!!!!
Reply #89 - Jul 25th, 2016 at 9:38am  
John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 9:17am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 25th, 2016 at 9:00am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:33pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:29pm:
But it is far more expensive, far longer to implement



rubbish ... libs 3rd rate FTN is almost as expensive, and not much quicker.

Face it, the libs only opposed FTH because it was labors policy.



with ADSL I had 12mbps  Now I have ~100Mbs.  tell me again why it isnt faster sing your tortured mathematics?


put up a screen shot of your speed longdopeyone!


Why would I bother?  You would only say it is doctored anyhow. Why dont I send you a 5Gb file which at my upload speed would take about 25 minutes. At ADSL speeds it would take 24-30 hours.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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