sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 2
nd, 2016 at 7:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 2
nd, 2016 at 1:14pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 1
st, 2016 at 9:48pm:
A much more interesting question to ask the Khans would be whether they agree that the Koran is the literal word of Allah, and if they do whether that means all the preaching of war in the Koran, and the ahadith is something they then must obey, or else be seen as being traitors to their own religion.
It never ceases to amaze me how a book that isn't even close to having a consensus interpretation amongst muslims - can come across as so dogmatically black and white to some non-muslims - almost all of whom have next to no knowledge of what the book actually says.
Its so simple isn't it alevine? If you are a peaceful muslim who espouses peaceful, inclusive and liberal ideas - then you absolutely must be completely betraying your Holy Text - absolutely, never ever, case closed.
It is monumentally stupid on two levels: 1. there absolutely is a strong scholarly case for a peaceful, inclusive Quran - enshrined in many verses including 5:16 - and moreover, there is a strong case for arguing that the so called "war verses" apply only in self defense. But far worse is 2. - the absurd idea that individual muslims have no independence or free will to interpret their own religion the way it means to them, personally. No, muslims must necessarily be cast according to what alevine and co dictate as what their religion is about. And thus you get this idiotic black and white dictum: if you are a nice muslim, there is no way around it - you are betraying your religion. No ifs, no buts, case closed.
Not self defence, Gandalf, but defence of Islam, which is a massive difference.
And given that peace is defined as belief, submission or death then I'm not quite sure how 5:16 is relevant at all.
But anyway, moving away from this I have absolutely no problem with people interpreting Islamic teachings as how they see fit. The problem becomes that it's kind of hard to reinterpret something that is believed to be the literal word of Allah. Can you imagine if you go to "paradise" and say, " oh well I decided you meant something different." I mean, you definitely won't succeed in any business where you just decide to reinterpret words/instructions of someone.
. Anyway, what we do know is that because the book is seen as the word of Allah then any Muslim who reinterprets is seen as a hypocrite to that belief... No?
No. There is no way you can interpret self defense or dying in the way of Allah as driving a truck into a crowd of people or blowing yourself up in a shopping centre. This is one of the biggest delusions of modern times.
The killing of innocent people is completely against Islamic teachings. Jihad, an inner struggle, can only be an outer struggle in the defense of yourself or others. Every Muslim will tell you this.
Jihadists are making fundamental ethical errors. Killing office workers in the World Trade Centre is not killing soldiers on a battlefield. Terrorism, or killing people to promote fear, doesn't fit within Islamic teachings. A terrorist cell, for example, can't declare war on "the West" by covertly killing off their civilians. Not only is the cell not at risk of being killed, there is no declaration of war and no clear enemy combatant.
Killing infidels is not an Islamic teaching. The Koran advises Muslims to leave non-Muslims alone, not to proselytize when they're not receptive, and to obey the laws when living or travelling in their land.
There is no way you can interpret suicide as dying in the way of Allah. Examples in the Koran include dying on a pilgrimage to Mecca or defending innocent civilians in a time of war. Afghanis defending themselves against a Soviet or US invasion are covered. Pakistanis defending Kashmiris from Indian soldiers on the border are covered. Members of Al Qaida blowing up themselves and as many civilians as they can take out?
Not covered. I believe the Koran makes references to hell as the punishment for this. It certainly says such actions are not pleasing to Allah. It says that the killing of one innocent person is akin to killing Allah Himself.
Muslims who make such fundamental errors are not following the true teachings of Islam, they're just wrong. The Koran is intended as a spiritual manual. It requires interpretation and internalizing. It makes use of metaphor. Some instructions are literal, others not so much, but the injunction not to kill innocents, it seems to me, is pretty clear.
The question I have is how people can get things so wrong. To me, this is far more interesting than blaming Islam. How do people overcome their biological will to live on such flimsy pretenses? How can they have so much hate for those they don't know that they're prepared to murder them? How do they become so alienated and ignorant? How can they possibly come to believe that they will be rewarded for mass murder with a specific number of virgins in the afterlife?
If their own parents, family and friends don't understand this, how can we attempt to?
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Typical regressive left gets it wrong again (Read 19444 times)
