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Define ISLAM (Read 8993 times)
Frank
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #90 - Dec 1st, 2016 at 9:41pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29th, 2016 at 5:57pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2016 at 5:34pm:
None of this explains why anyone should accept illegal immigrants.


How many times do you need to be told?

It is NOT "illegal" to seek Asylum upon crossing a nation's borders.  An Asylum Seeker is not an "illegal immigrant" until their request for Asylum has been refused.   Roll Eyes



Very well - nor is it illegal to send them to Manus and Nauru and barring them from ever entering Australia.


They are legal, we are legal - as long as they never set foot here, we are all happy and legal.

That's all that matters.






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Karnal
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #91 - Dec 1st, 2016 at 9:44pm
 
But, old boy, you set foot here. We're all curious.

Where did you come from?
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Brian Ross
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #92 - Dec 1st, 2016 at 10:13pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 1st, 2016 at 9:41pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29th, 2016 at 5:57pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2016 at 5:34pm:
None of this explains why anyone should accept illegal immigrants.


How many times do you need to be told?

It is NOT "illegal" to seek Asylum upon crossing a nation's borders.  An Asylum Seeker is not an "illegal immigrant" until their request for Asylum has been refused.   Roll Eyes


Very well - nor is it illegal to send them to Manus and Nauru and barring them from ever entering Australia.


Actually, it is, according to International Law under the UN Convention on Refugees and other agreements that the Australian Federal Government has signed.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
They are legal, we are legal - as long as they never set foot here, we are all happy and legal.

That's all that matters.


Only if you believe Australia should be on a level with the DPRK and other scofflaw nations.   Roll Eyes
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rhino
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #93 - Dec 1st, 2016 at 10:16pm
 
Frank wrote on Nov 30th, 2016 at 6:44pm:
[
Let them seek asylum in Indonesia and Malaysia where they are let in visa free. 

From there they exit illegally and they try to enter Australia illegally, without passports or visas.

Unless they are fleeing Malaysia or Indonesia, they ARE illegals - leaving Indoneisa/malaysia illegally and trying to enter Australia illegally.


i



correct on all points.
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rhino
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #94 - Dec 1st, 2016 at 10:19pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 30th, 2016 at 6:53pm:
[
And, asylum seekers are detained for health, security, and identification checks - not for any illegal activity.



Incorrect, they are able to be detained because they have entered illegally, if they didnt enter illegally then there would be no legal power to detain them. the key word which you fail to understand is "detain".  Wink
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Karnal
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #95 - Dec 1st, 2016 at 10:28pm
 
Frank?

Oh. You've gone.
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Frank
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #96 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 8:24am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 1st, 2016 at 10:13pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 1st, 2016 at 9:41pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 29th, 2016 at 5:57pm:
Frank wrote on Nov 29th, 2016 at 5:34pm:
None of this explains why anyone should accept illegal immigrants.


How many times do you need to be told?

It is NOT "illegal" to seek Asylum upon crossing a nation's borders.  An Asylum Seeker is not an "illegal immigrant" until their request for Asylum has been refused.   Roll Eyes


Very well - nor is it illegal to send them to Manus and Nauru and barring them from ever entering Australia.


Actually, it is, according to International Law under the UN Convention on Refugees and other agreements that the Australian Federal Government has signed.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
They are legal, we are legal - as long as they never set foot here, we are all happy and legal.

That's all that matters.


Only if you believe Australia should be on a level with the DPRK and other scofflaw nations.   Roll Eyes



It is all lies and nonsense - and that is why there is no international legal action against Australia: it is not illegal to maintain border controls against illegal intruders.

No country is obliged to treat SECONDARY movement illegal intruders as if they were fleeing directly the country of persecution.  Just uttering the word 'asylum' is not sufficient to override the words of the refugee convention.


It is all lies - and that is why there is no international legal action against Australia.


Let them seek asylum in Indonesia and Malaysia where they are let in visa free. 

From there they exit illegally and they try to enter Australia illegally, without passports or visas.

Unless they are fleeing Malaysia or Indonesia, they ARE illegals - leaving Indoneisa/malaysia illegally and trying to enter Australia illegally.




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Karnal
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #97 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 10:01am
 
Sorry, Frank, you didn't say where you're from.
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Frank
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #98 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 1:08pm
 
Karnal wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 10:01am:
Sorry, Frank, you didn't say where you're from.

I'm from here.


And we also know where you are from.
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #99 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 2:08pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 8:24am:
It is all lies and nonsense...


...

Frank, your denials are boring and of course wrong.  It is illegal to detain Asylum Seekers according to the 1951 Convention on Refugees.   Silly man.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #100 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 2:11pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 2:08pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 8:24am:
It is all lies and nonsense...


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Frank, your denials are boring and of course wrong.  It is illegal to detain Asylum Seekers according to the 1951 Convention on Refugees.   Silly man.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Thats not correct Brian. You just made that up. this isnt your forum where all 4 posters are going to overlook patent nonsense. Not only is it not illegal to detain them , it is required by law to detain them under the immigration act.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #101 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 2:20pm
 
rhino wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 2:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 2:08pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 8:24am:
It is all lies and nonsense...


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Frank, your denials are boring and of course wrong.  It is illegal to detain Asylum Seekers according to the 1951 Convention on Refugees.   Silly man.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Thats not correct Brian. You just made that up. this isnt your forum where all 4 posters are going to overlook patent nonsense. Not only is it not illegal to detain them , it is required by law to detain them under the immigration act.


Quote:
Prohibited penalties might include being charged with immigration or crim-
inal offences relating to the seeking of asylum, or being arbitrarily detained
purely on the basis of seeking asylum.

[Source]

Quote:
How Australia Violates Human Rights

The following paragraphs about the 1951 United Nations Convention on the Rights of Refugees are from the website of the UN High Commisioner for Refugees:

    Liberty is a fundamental human right, like asylum. As a general rule, detention of asylum-seekers is not acceptable. It is particularly undesirable when those detained include the very vulnerable — children, single women, and people with special medical or psychological needs, such as torture victims. They are not criminals; they have already suffered great hardship and jailing them is wrong.

    The 1951 Convention specifically bars countries from punishing people who have arrived directly from a country of persecution (or from another country where protection could not be assured), provided that they present themselves speedily to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry. Monitoring (through reporting obligations or guarantor requirements) is often a perfectly viable alternative to imprisoning asylum-seekers.

    Detention is only acceptable if it is brief, absolutely necessary, and instituted after other options have been implemented. Acceptable purposes include to verify identity; to determine the elements on which the claim for asylum is based; the protection of public order; or, if necessary, in cases where refugees have destroyed documents or used fraudulent ones. Detained asylum-seekers should always be informed of their rights – including the right to challenge their imprisonment. All asylum-seekers must maintain the possibility of contacting the local UNHCR office, other agencies, and a lawyer.

The Australian government policy violates the above convention in the following ways:

    It is applied without discrimination to all unauthorised refugees including, children, single women and torture victims.

    It is neither brief or necessary. Detention of refugees can last for weeks months or even years while their application makes its way through the bureaucracy. Australia is the only country in the developed world to imprison refugees. In other countries they are generally released into the community while their application is being processed.

    Refugees in detention centres are not informed of their rights to the UNHCR, refugee support groups or legal representatives. In fact the Government has gone to extraordinary lengths to isolate them from such groups.

[Source]

Do I need to go on, really?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Karnal
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #102 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 6:29pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 1:08pm:
Karnal wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 10:01am:
Sorry, Frank, you didn't say where you're from.

I'm from here.


And we also know where you are from.


I say, you have gone native. You're even speaking Pidgeon English.

Good show.
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #103 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 9:34pm
 
There seems to be a complete disregard for the history of Islam, and the various forms it has taken throughout history.

Religion is an extremely complex matter.
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #104 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 9:54pm
 
Auggie wrote on Dec 4th, 2016 at 9:34pm:
There seems to be a complete disregard for the history of Islam, and the various forms it has taken throughout history.

Religion is an extremely complex matter.


No, religion is not complex. You are mistaking variants and subdivisions for complexity. The Abrahamics and several other religions are essentially the same. They preach a view of reality which is a heirarchy of perception involving esoteric or secret knowledge that is only revealed if you believe it. The idea that one person can know more about reality than another allows the building power structures within the religion and ultimately, the tribe or country.
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