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Define ISLAM (Read 8916 times)
rhino
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #105 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 9:56pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3rd, 2016 at 2:20pm:
[

Do I need to go on, really?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Up to you, nothing you have posted thus far negates the fact that immigration law requires the automatic detention of all who enter australia without a valid visa. The only thing which will save you here Brian is if you can find some part of the australian legislation which permits asylum seekers to be exempt. heres a clue for you, you wont.  Wink
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Auggie
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #106 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 10:16pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Dec 4th, 2016 at 9:54pm:
Auggie wrote on Dec 4th, 2016 at 9:34pm:
There seems to be a complete disregard for the history of Islam, and the various forms it has taken throughout history.

Religion is an extremely complex matter.


No, religion is not complex. You are mistaking variants and subdivisions for complexity. The Abrahamics and several other religions are essentially the same. They preach a view of reality which is a heirarchy of perception involving esoteric or secret knowledge that is only revealed if you believe it. The idea that one person can know more about reality than another allows the building power structures within the religion and ultimately, the tribe or country.


I agree with what you say. No one is infallible.

Islam has taken on different forms throughout its history. Take Iran, for example. When Shah Ismail I took power in 1501 and established the Safavid Dynasty in Persia and brought Shia Islam to Iran, he didn't take on the name 'Caliph' he called himself 'Shah' after whom? After the Achaemenids (i.e. Cyrus and Darius), a non-Islamic Empire. In spite of being an Islamic state, Iran has always governed itself as a centralized and Imperial administration, because it had the history of such institutions through the Achaemenids, and the Sasanians.

If you look at the historical context of the Quran, it was established in the context of a tribal society, and so many of the tenets in the Quran are rules prescribed in the case of tribal societies. If Islam had been established in the Iranian plateau, it would've taken a significantly form from what we see today.

Whilst Iran is a pariah state and does have a very belligerent foreign policy, it is actually a highly civilized country. There's a reason why Daesh didn't originate in Iran, and why much of ideology of Daesh didn't develop in Iran, and that's because of Iran's history as a centralized and imperial nation-state (and its independence) where people respected the authority of the state over religion. We still see this to a certain extent today (despite the Islamic Revolution). Iran is officially a Theocracy but it isn't governed in the same manner as Saudi Arabia which is more tribal; Iran has the administration of a imperial power.
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Re: Define ISLAM
Reply #107 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 11:28pm
 
Auggie wrote on Dec 4th, 2016 at 10:16pm:

Whilst Iran is a pariah state and does have a very belligerent foreign policy, it is actually a highly civilized country.

There's a reason why Daesh didn't originate in Iran, and why much of ideology of Daesh didn't develop in Iran, and that's because of Iran's history as a centralized and imperial nation-state (and its independence) where people respected the authority of the state over religion. We still see this to a certain extent today (despite the Islamic Revolution). Iran is officially a Theocracy but it isn't governed in the same manner as Saudi Arabia which is more tribal; Iran has the administration of a imperial power.





Where ISIS holds sway, 'the State' punishes anyone who offends the strictures of ISLAM [as interpreted by ISIS].

In Iran, 'the State' punishes anyone who offends the strictures of [Shia] ISLAM.

In Saudi Arabia, 'the State' punishes anyone who offends the strictures of [Sunni] ISLAM.





Daesh [ISIS]

Islamic Republic of Iran

The Saudis of Saudi Arabia


No matter their 'apparent' separate interests, all three are 'power entities' in the world today, who compete in the world, for influence over the 'moslem street'.

And a moslem is a follower of ISLAM.       < -------- dictionary definition.


The moslem pays his dues to the group of his choice.

But it is all ISLAM.

And there ain't no 'moderate' ISLAM.

The Shia moslem will murder someone who offends 'his' religion, just as readily as a Sunni moslem, or a follower of ISIS.



But regarding moslems, and their character/psyche [as it relates to the influence that ISLAM has upon 'the moslem'],            of one thing in particular, we can be ABSOLUTELY certain;

ISLAM tells moslems that they must hate people who are not moslems, and to fight and to kill them [...whenever moslems are given that 'opportunity'].




.




"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Koran 9.111


"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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