Australian Politics Forum - 18c in action from an unexpected source

Lord Herbert

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18c in action from an unexpected source
Sep 13^th, 2016 at 8:15pm

"The Human Rights Commission has accepted a racial discrimination complaint lodged by crossbench senator David Leyonhjelm.

The Liberal Democrat lodged the complaint over an article by veteran Fairfax journalist Mark Kenny that blasted him over his wish to see section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act abolished.

The article, published last month, described him as an "angry white male".

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Raven Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2981 Around	Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source Reply #1 - Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 12:50pm Is it racist for a white person to call another white person white?
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Mr Hammer

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #2 - Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 12:55pm

Raven wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 12:50pm:

Is it racist for a white person to call another white person white?

It was the context. He was stereotyped on the basis of his race. If a white person called a black person an "angry black male" in the media it would be front page news and straight before the courts.

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Belgarion

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #3 - Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:04pm

The basis of this complaint is to expose how ridiculous this 18C law is. It has the 'progressives' in fits because if they deny his right to complain they are showing that it is indeed only a vehicle for enforcing discrimination against white people, and if it goes through the foolishness of the whole system is exposed for all to see.

A lose/lose for the self loathing white activists and their fellow travellers. Grin

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Brian Ross

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #4 - Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:42pm

Belgarion wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:04pm:

The basis of this complaint is to expose how ridiculous this 18C law is. It has the 'progressives' in fits because if they deny his right to complain they are showing that it is indeed only a vehicle for enforcing discrimination against white people, and if it goes through the foolishness of the whole system is exposed for all to see.

A lose/lose for the self loathing white activists and their fellow travellers. Grin

What an interesting analysis. Belgarion. OK, here's a question - without 18c, how does one get held responsible for the offence that one's comments can cause? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Raven

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #5 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 12:36am

Belgarion wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:04pm:

The basis of this complaint is to expose how ridiculous this 18C law is. It has the 'progressives' in fits because if they deny his right to complain they are showing that it is indeed only a vehicle for enforcing discrimination against white people, and if it goes through the foolishness of the whole system is exposed for all to see.

A lose/lose for the self loathing white activists and their fellow travellers. Grin

Raven wonders what the Senator and his ilk want to say that requires the abolition of 18C in order to be able to say it.

Free speech doesn't mean you can say what you want without consequence. It just means the government can't stop you from saying it.

Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express it.

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Raven

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #6 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 12:40am

Mr Hammer wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 12:55pm:

Raven wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 12:50pm:

Is it racist for a white person to call another white person white?

It was the context. He was stereotyped on the basis of his race. If a white person called a black person an "angry black male" in the media it would be front page news and straight before the courts.

So what you're saying is that all white people are stereotyped as angry know-alls?

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #7 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 8:25am

Let's use aboriginal over-representation in the prison system. The popular explanation is the difficulty aboriginals experience living in a racist, oppressive colony of white mother England. That'll get you a pat on the back. The unofficial reason goes back to aboriginal family dysfunction leading to not attending/dropping out of school, welfare reliance, drugs/alcohol and finally the easy option of crime. That'll potentially get you charged under18c. Just ask Bill Leak.

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Belgarion

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #8 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 12:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:42pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:04pm:

The basis of this complaint is to expose how ridiculous this 18C law is. It has the 'progressives' in fits because if they deny his right to complain they are showing that it is indeed only a vehicle for enforcing discrimination against white people, and if it goes through the foolishness of the whole system is exposed for all to see.

A lose/lose for the self loathing white activists and their fellow travellers. Grin

What an interesting analysis. Belgarion. OK, here's a question - without 18c, how does one get held responsible for the offence that one's comments can cause? Roll Eyes

If a comment is libelous or defaming there are laws already in place to deal with it, however there is no 'right' not to be offended.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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Belgarion

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #9 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 12:48pm

Raven wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 12:36am:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:04pm:

The basis of this complaint is to expose how ridiculous this 18C law is. It has the 'progressives' in fits because if they deny his right to complain they are showing that it is indeed only a vehicle for enforcing discrimination against white people, and if it goes through the foolishness of the whole system is exposed for all to see.

A lose/lose for the self loathing white activists and their fellow travellers. Grin

Raven wonders what the Senator and his ilk want to say that requires the abolition of 18C in order to be able to say it.

Free speech doesn't mean you can say what you want without consequence. It just means the government can't stop you from saying it.

Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express it.

You misunderstand, a position itself is not being defended by citing free speech. The right to express it is the issue.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Lord Herbert

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #10 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 1:21pm

Raven wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 12:50pm:

Is it racist for a white person to call another white person white?

Yes - but only if that honky has a complex about being white, and therefore takes offence at being called white.

For reasons as yet unknown, blacks being called 'blacks' by white guys is taken as an insult, whereas whites being called 'whites' by blacks, is not taken as an insult.

Go figure.

Aborigines being called 'Abos' for short is taken as an insult.

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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source Reply #11 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 1:43pm Herb, how offended are you at being called a 'pom'? Other terms like this are 'yankee', 'kiwi' and 'limey'. Not a lot of offence there. 'Abo' (short for Aboriginal) and 'Lezzo' (short for lesbian)-"Look out! Here comes a Vesuvius of confected outrage!!!
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Lord Herbert

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #12 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 2:39pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 1:43pm:

Herb, how offended are you at being called a 'pom'? Other terms like this are 'yankee', 'kiwi' and 'limey'. Not a lot of offence there. 'Abo' (short for Aboriginal) and 'Lezzo' (short for lesbian)-"Look out! Here comes a Vesuvius of confected outrage!!!

From day one in 1961 it never occurred to me to take offence at this, and especially as a lot of the migrants at that time had to wear words like 'wog' and dago' and 'reffoes' - something which I never called them, incidentally.

These words can be terms of insult or endearment, depending upon circumstance and context. I've often heard my ethnic workmates use the term 'wog' with each other as an irony.

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Brian Ross

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #13 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 2:48pm

Belgarion wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 12:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:42pm:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:04pm:

The basis of this complaint is to expose how ridiculous this 18C law is. It has the 'progressives' in fits because if they deny his right to complain they are showing that it is indeed only a vehicle for enforcing discrimination against white people, and if it goes through the foolishness of the whole system is exposed for all to see.

A lose/lose for the self loathing white activists and their fellow travellers. Grin

What an interesting analysis. Belgarion. OK, here's a question - without 18c, how does one get held responsible for the offence that one's comments can cause? Roll Eyes

If a comment is libelous or defaming there are laws already in place to deal with it, however there is no 'right' not to be offended.

Yet you appear to be "offended" continually by criticism of the PHONies and their policies, Belgarion... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: 18c in action from an unexpected source
Reply #14 - Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 2:53pm

Belgarion wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 12:48pm:

Raven wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2016 at 12:36am:

Belgarion wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 1:04pm:

The basis of this complaint is to expose how ridiculous this 18C law is. It has the 'progressives' in fits because if they deny his right to complain they are showing that it is indeed only a vehicle for enforcing discrimination against white people, and if it goes through the foolishness of the whole system is exposed for all to see.

A lose/lose for the self loathing white activists and their fellow travellers. Grin

Raven wonders what the Senator and his ilk want to say that requires the abolition of 18C in order to be able to say it.

Free speech doesn't mean you can say what you want without consequence. It just means the government can't stop you from saying it.

Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express it.

You misunderstand, a position itself is not being defended by citing free speech. The right to express it is the issue.

18C does not prevent you from expressing an opinion, Belgarion. It is the offence suffered by the complainant and the subsequent court action that punishes you for making that statement. Indeed, there are provisions under 18C which protect free speech:

Quote:

RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18C
Offensive behaviour because of race, colour or national or ethnic origin

         (1) It is unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if:

                  (a) the act is reasonably likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people; and

                  (b) the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the other person or of some or all of the people in the group.

Note:       Subsection (1) makes certain acts unlawful. Section 46P of the Australian Human Rights Commission Act 1986 allows people to make complaints to the Australian Human Rights Commission about unlawful acts. However, an unlawful act is not necessarily a criminal offence. Section 26 says that this Act does not make it an offence to do an act that is unlawful because of this Part, unless Part IV expressly says that the act is an offence.

         (2) For the purposes of subsection (1), an act is taken not to be done in private if it:

                  (a) causes words, sounds, images or writing to be communicated to the public; or

                  (b) is done in a public place; or

                  (c) is done in the sight or hearing of people who are in a public place.

         (3) In this section:

"public place " includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, whether express or implied and whether or not a charge is made for admission to the place.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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