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Who Will Win the Presidency? (Read 55958 times)
Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #315 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 1:32pm
 
Richdude wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 1:29pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:58am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:06pm:
Just wondering if you've ever worked with (or for) state / federal ministers or career politicians ?


I/We've been wondering why you're finding it so difficult to answer the question as to how Hillary will deal with the China Sea expansion problem better than Trump.


Trump comment: "If we have nuclear weapons, why dont we use them?"


Is that not enough to answer how he would deal with it?


Please give the source of that comment.



it was reported on NBC from a briefing he had with intelligence officials.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #316 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:29pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 12:56pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:58am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:06pm:
Just wondering if you've ever worked with (or for) state / federal ministers or career politicians ?


I/We've been wondering why you're finding it so difficult to answer the question as to how Hillary will deal with the China Sea expansion problem better than Trump.


Trump comment: "If we have nuclear weapons, why dont we use them?"

Is that not enough to answer how he would deal with it?

That's if his administration would execute the order. On more than one occasion Nixon ordered an extreme order (at least one being a nuclear attack) but his national security advisor / secretary of state (Kissinger) countermanded the order (probably illegally but he did it anyway) because he'd decided that Nixon was not in his right mind.

Given that a former CIA Director (Michael Hayden) has publically suggested that the U.S. military may refuse to follow Trump's orders - an indication of how little faith the military establishment has in Trump's mental health or at least psychological fitness to be President - its likely he will be hamstrung from day one.




The problem is that a military commander who refused to follow orders should be court-martialed. What keeps western countries from military coups is the absolute 100% obedience to the chain of command.

And, Ive never heard of your Nixon scenario and so it sounds pretty much like internet scuttlebut. Such a story would ahve been absolutely huge.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #317 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:32pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 1:19pm:
Sixty thousand voted today on the first day of early voting in Houston. Most said they spent a little over two hours in line. We voted in league city this morning and our wait was only about fifteen minutes because they were better prepared. After seeing the turnout I am more sure than ever the Polls are bogus!


Well here's your little problem. While voluntary voting does inherently make american polls less accurate than ours, they are still pretty good. And remember, this is not a 51/49 split where the result is in the margin of error. This is a 56/44 OR WORSE split where even if they are wrong by several percent, Trump will still be spanked hard. Victory for Trump is simply not even close to being on the horizon.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #318 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:33pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 12:56pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:58am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:06pm:
Just wondering if you've ever worked with (or for) state / federal ministers or career politicians ?


I/We've been wondering why you're finding it so difficult to answer the question as to how Hillary will deal with the China Sea expansion problem better than Trump.


Trump comment: "If we have nuclear weapons, why dont we use them?"

Is that not enough to answer how he would deal with it?

That's if his administration would execute the order. On more than one occasion Nixon ordered an extreme order (at least one being a nuclear attack) but his national security advisor / secretary of state (Kissinger) countermanded the order (probably illegally but he did it anyway) because he'd decided that Nixon was not in his right mind.

Given that a former CIA Director (Michael Hayden) has publically suggested that the U.S. military may refuse to follow Trump's orders - an indication of how little faith the military establishment has in Trump's mental health or at least psychological fitness to be President - its likely he will be hamstrung from day one.




The problem is that a military commander who refused to follow orders should be court-martialed. What keeps western countries from military coups is the absolute 100% obedience to the chain of command.

And, Ive never heard of your Nixon scenario and so it sounds pretty much like internet scuttlebut. Such a story would ahve been absolutely huge.



I have to admit I've never heard of it either. I have heard about the discussion of possibly using nuclear weapons in Vietnam, but it never got any further than that.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #319 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:47pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:33pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 12:56pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:58am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:06pm:
Just wondering if you've ever worked with (or for) state / federal ministers or career politicians ?


I/We've been wondering why you're finding it so difficult to answer the question as to how Hillary will deal with the China Sea expansion problem better than Trump.


Trump comment: "If we have nuclear weapons, why dont we use them?"

Is that not enough to answer how he would deal with it?

That's if his administration would execute the order. On more than one occasion Nixon ordered an extreme order (at least one being a nuclear attack) but his national security advisor / secretary of state (Kissinger) countermanded the order (probably illegally but he did it anyway) because he'd decided that Nixon was not in his right mind.

Given that a former CIA Director (Michael Hayden) has publically suggested that the U.S. military may refuse to follow Trump's orders - an indication of how little faith the military establishment has in Trump's mental health or at least psychological fitness to be President - its likely he will be hamstrung from day one.




The problem is that a military commander who refused to follow orders should be court-martialed. What keeps western countries from military coups is the absolute 100% obedience to the chain of command.

And, Ive never heard of your Nixon scenario and so it sounds pretty much like internet scuttlebut. Such a story would ahve been absolutely huge.



I have to admit I've never heard of it either. I have heard about the discussion of possibly using nuclear weapons in Vietnam, but it never got any further than that.



Yes I remember it being raised by a senior politician or general at the time (not sure which) and the President quickly said no.  And that was that.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Karnal
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #320 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:15pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:57am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 7:43pm:
Karnal wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 5:59pm:
Trump has always been pro-choice, and now he's pro-life. Pro-drug decriminalization, and now tough on drugs. For the invasion of Iraq, and now against it. For universal health-care, and now against that.

He's used cheap foreign labour to build skyscrapers. He's imported Chinese steel. He's paid big money to Democrat politicians, including "crooked Hillary". Almost every position he takes is the exact opposite of what he once said or did. 


That demonstrates a willingness to hang loose and remain flexible rather than be set in concrete like a Jimmy Hoffa.


You mean a Rudd-like clown who would do absolutely anything and say anything to get elected and then do what he wants anyhow? I might disagree with people on the Left, but as long as they actually hold to their convictions I can respect them. Rudd literally polled to find out what he should believe it. Trump is just as bad.


Only Longy could turn criticism of Trump into a dump on the ALP.

Yes, Longy, you're that good.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #321 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:26pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
The problem is that a military commander who refused to follow orders should be court-martialed.

Yes. I guess some things are worth being court-martialed over.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #322 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:34pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:33pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 12:56pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:58am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:06pm:
Just wondering if you've ever worked with (or for) state / federal ministers or career politicians ?


I/We've been wondering why you're finding it so difficult to answer the question as to how Hillary will deal with the China Sea expansion problem better than Trump.


Trump comment: "If we have nuclear weapons, why dont we use them?"

Is that not enough to answer how he would deal with it?

That's if his administration would execute the order. On more than one occasion Nixon ordered an extreme order (at least one being a nuclear attack) but his national security advisor / secretary of state (Kissinger) countermanded the order (probably illegally but he did it anyway) because he'd decided that Nixon was not in his right mind.

Given that a former CIA Director (Michael Hayden) has publically suggested that the U.S. military may refuse to follow Trump's orders - an indication of how little faith the military establishment has in Trump's mental health or at least psychological fitness to be President - its likely he will be hamstrung from day one.




The problem is that a military commander who refused to follow orders should be court-martialed. What keeps western countries from military coups is the absolute 100% obedience to the chain of command.

And, Ive never heard of your Nixon scenario and so it sounds pretty much like internet scuttlebut. Such a story would ahve been absolutely huge.



I have to admit I've never heard of it either. I have heard about the discussion of possibly using nuclear weapons in Vietnam, but it never got any further than that.

Niall Ferguson's second volume of Kissinger's biography (Ferguson has complete access to all Kissinger's papers) - the first one ending the story in 1968 - will no doubt explain the full detail, but from memory it was during the final death throes of Nixon's Presidency and shortly before his resignation.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #323 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:51pm
 
Karnal wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:15pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:57am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 7:43pm:
Karnal wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 5:59pm:
Trump has always been pro-choice, and now he's pro-life. Pro-drug decriminalization, and now tough on drugs. For the invasion of Iraq, and now against it. For universal health-care, and now against that.

He's used cheap foreign labour to build skyscrapers. He's imported Chinese steel. He's paid big money to Democrat politicians, including "crooked Hillary". Almost every position he takes is the exact opposite of what he once said or did. 


That demonstrates a willingness to hang loose and remain flexible rather than be set in concrete like a Jimmy Hoffa.


You mean a Rudd-like clown who would do absolutely anything and say anything to get elected and then do what he wants anyhow? I might disagree with people on the Left, but as long as they actually hold to their convictions I can respect them. Rudd literally polled to find out what he should believe it. Trump is just as bad.


Only Longy could turn criticism of Trump into a dump on the ALP.

Yes, Longy, you're that good. 


Well Rudd literally polled people to find out 'what he believed in'. His policies were whatever was popular and nothing else. Trump is a version of the same thing - promising whatever people want despite being unable to deliver and some things being just plain stupid.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #324 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:53pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:26pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
The problem is that a military commander who refused to follow orders should be court-martialed.

Yes. I guess some things are worth being court-martialed over.


Agreed... but only just. If you are going to break this sacred trust and chain of command you need to have a huge moral imperative to do so, because it will either kill you or send you to jail for a very, very long time.

I presume to have our military follow orders all the time and work instead on making the order-givers a better group of people.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #325 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:54pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:34pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:33pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 12:56pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:58am:
Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:26pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 24th, 2016 at 8:06pm:
Just wondering if you've ever worked with (or for) state / federal ministers or career politicians ?


I/We've been wondering why you're finding it so difficult to answer the question as to how Hillary will deal with the China Sea expansion problem better than Trump.


Trump comment: "If we have nuclear weapons, why dont we use them?"

Is that not enough to answer how he would deal with it?

That's if his administration would execute the order. On more than one occasion Nixon ordered an extreme order (at least one being a nuclear attack) but his national security advisor / secretary of state (Kissinger) countermanded the order (probably illegally but he did it anyway) because he'd decided that Nixon was not in his right mind.

Given that a former CIA Director (Michael Hayden) has publically suggested that the U.S. military may refuse to follow Trump's orders - an indication of how little faith the military establishment has in Trump's mental health or at least psychological fitness to be President - its likely he will be hamstrung from day one.




The problem is that a military commander who refused to follow orders should be court-martialed. What keeps western countries from military coups is the absolute 100% obedience to the chain of command.

And, Ive never heard of your Nixon scenario and so it sounds pretty much like internet scuttlebut. Such a story would ahve been absolutely huge.



I have to admit I've never heard of it either. I have heard about the discussion of possibly using nuclear weapons in Vietnam, but it never got any further than that.

Niall Ferguson's second volume of Kissinger's biography (Ferguson has complete access to all Kissinger's papers) - the first one ending the story in 1968 - will no doubt explain the full detail, but from memory it was during the final death throes of Nixon's Presidency and shortly before his resignation.


It just sounds like the kind of incendiary situation that would have been global news. It sounds a bit over-sold.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #326 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 4:49pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:53pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 3:26pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
The problem is that a military commander who refused to follow orders should be court-martialed.

Yes. I guess some things are worth being court-martialed over.


Agreed... but only just. If you are going to break this sacred trust and chain of command you need to have a huge moral imperative to do so, because it will either kill you or send you to jail for a very, very long time.

I presume to have our military follow orders all the time and work instead on making the order-givers a better group of people.

Yes... An ideal that even the American 'Founding Fathers' saw fit (via a half-arsed cause) to jettison.
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #327 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 4:59pm
 
Any Military Commander, any serviceman for that matter, in any branch of the US Military does not have to blindly obey the direct orders of the President of the United States of America.........because of one extremely important reason, he is under a solemn oath to only obey "Legal" orders, & must, by his oath, disobey an "Unlawful" order....




A Duty to Disobey All Unlawful Orders



Source:    
Counter Punch
       Quote:
......... The military oath taken at the time of induction reads:

   
“I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God”



The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the “lawful command of his superior officer,” 891.ART.91 (2), the “lawful order of a warrant officer”, 892.ART.92 (1) the “lawful general order”, 892.ART.92 (2) “lawful order”. In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.


During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, “The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, ‘Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.’ This principle was considered so important that we-we, the government of the United States, proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials.” (Bill Moyers, “The Secret Government”, Seven Locks Press; also in the PBS 1987 documentary, “The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis”)

Senator Inouye was referring to the Nuremberg trials in the post WW II era, when the U.S. tried Nazi war criminals and did not allow them to use the reason or excuse that they were only “following orders” as a defense for their war crimes which resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent men, women, and children. “In 1953, the Department of Defense adopted the principles of the Nuremberg Code as official policy” of the United States. (Hasting Center Report, March-April 1991)..................
continued (link)


Please note, the oath specifically says he must support & defend the US Constitution.....as his first obligation, to obey the US Constitution, not any person, officer, Country, State, or Congressional Committee.
Wink

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« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2016 at 5:12pm by Panther »  

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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #328 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 5:09pm
 
Panther wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 4:59pm:
A Military Commander in any branch of the US Military does not have to blindly obey the direct orders of the President of the United States of America.........because of one extremely important reason, he is under a solemn oath to only obey "Legal" orders, & must, by his oath, disobey an "Unlawful" order....




A Duty to Disobey All Unlawful Orders



Source:    
Counter Punch
       Quote:
......... The military oath taken at the time of induction reads:

   
“I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God”



The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the “lawful command of his superior officer,” 891.ART.91 (2), the “lawful order of a warrant officer”, 892.ART.92 (1) the “lawful general order”, 892.ART.92 (2) “lawful order”. In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.


During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, “The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, ‘Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.’ This principle was considered so important that we-we, the government of the United States, proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials.” (Bill Moyers, “The Secret Government”, Seven Locks Press; also in the PBS 1987 documentary, “The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis”)

Senator Inouye was referring to the Nuremberg trials in the post WW II era, when the U.S. tried Nazi war criminals and did not allow them to use the reason or excuse that they were only “following orders” as a defense for their war crimes which resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent men, women, and children. “In 1953, the Department of Defense adopted the principles of the Nuremberg Code as official policy” of the United States. (Hasting Center Report, March-April 1991)..................
continued (link)


Please note, the oath specifically says he must protect & defend the US Constitution.....he has as his first obligation, to obey the US Constitution, not any person, officer, Country, State, or Congressional Committee.
Wink


what side of the moral aisle does the presidential order stand to use nuclear weapons within a current war zone?
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Who Will Win the Presidency?
Reply #329 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 5:17pm
 
Panther wrote on Oct 25th, 2016 at 4:59pm:
Any Military Commander, any serviceman for that matter, in any branch of the US Military does not have to blindly obey the direct orders of the President of the United States of America.........because of one extremely important reason, he is under a solemn oath to only obey "Legal" orders, & must, by his oath, disobey an "Unlawful" order....




A Duty to Disobey All Unlawful Orders



Source:    
Counter Punch
       Quote:
......... The military oath taken at the time of induction reads:

   
“I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God”



The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the “lawful command of his superior officer,” 891.ART.91 (2), the “lawful order of a warrant officer”, 892.ART.92 (1) the “lawful general order”, 892.ART.92 (2) “lawful order”. In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.


During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, “The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, ‘Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.’ This principle was considered so important that we-we, the government of the United States, proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials.” (Bill Moyers, “The Secret Government”, Seven Locks Press; also in the PBS 1987 documentary, “The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis”)

Senator Inouye was referring to the Nuremberg trials in the post WW II era, when the U.S. tried Nazi war criminals and did not allow them to use the reason or excuse that they were only “following orders” as a defense for their war crimes which resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent men, women, and children. “In 1953, the Department of Defense adopted the principles of the Nuremberg Code as official policy” of the United States. (Hasting Center Report, March-April 1991)..................
continued (link)


Please note, the oath specifically says he must support & defend the US Constitution.....as his first obligation, to obey the US Constitution, not any person, officer, Country, State, or Congressional Committee.
Wink



I know what you are saying, but in reality, 'legal' is largely what the President orders with some obvious exceptions. Shooting unarmed civilians is clearly a breach, but that is not really what we are talking about. The orders merely have to be legal. They dont have to be moral, ethical or correct. That doesnt leave an awful lot of wiggle room. Other than clearly unconscionable and illegal orders, I would expect the military to follow all orders largely because, the alternative is worse such as endless coups in dozens of countries.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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