Australian Politics Forum - Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...

Aussie

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #15 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:56pm

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this is what the world is coming too thumbing their noses at the rules and regulations...it only starts in a small way..

Those 'thumbing their noses at the rules and regulations' were the Officers. The bloke religiously abiding by them was the fellow who insisted the Officers also abide by them.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138249 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #16 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 4:04pm miketrees wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 12:51pm: I could not stand watching that right through. I hope he got smashed at some point. You what? You hope he got physically assaulted for exercising his rights? Is that really what you are saying?
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #17 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 4:17pm

cods wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:40pm:

Neferti wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:34pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 2:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:40pm:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:15pm:

Would not happen in Australia. Border Force can legally detain people at the border for examination.

He was in the USA and insisted his rights be respected.

I'm sure you're right, but what right weren't they respecting?

His right to have unrestricted movement in the USA. That is why all those Officers gave way. They had no 'probable cause' to detain him. That being the case, and that he insisted on his rights (as everyone should) they had no option but to wave him goodbye.

When did you become an expert on USA LAW? Have you been watching Foxtel's Crime Channel? Grin

come come nef you know there isnt anything aussie isnt an expert on.....

as for non citizens having the same rights as born citzs .. I wouldnt like to risk it would you???>..

When they're in the US, they do.

"Aliens in the U.S. have essentially the same rights as citizens for many purposes because of the 5th and 14th Amendments’ language, but aliens do not have constitutional rights against the U.S. government outside its territory."

Vergudo-Urquidez

The guy making the video was doing nothing wrong, which is why he was allowed to go on his way.

What's wrong with people exercising their rights?

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Unforgiven

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #18 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 4:34pm

Herbert and John Smith are dead wrong. The problem in this circumstance is US laws did not empower these officials to conduct these searches. In particular, border patrols and immigration officials don't have authority inside USA, only at border check points or defined border areas.

These people are imposing their will wrongfully outside their areas of jurisdiction.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #19 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:29pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 2:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:40pm:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:15pm:

Would not happen in Australia. Border Force can legally detain people at the border for examination.

He was in the USA and insisted his rights be respected.

I'm sure you're right, but what right weren't they respecting?

His right to have unrestricted movement in the USA. That is why all those Officers gave way. They had no 'probable cause' to detain him. That being the case, and that he insisted on his rights (as everyone should) they had no option but to wave him goodbye.

But why would they wave him down in the first place?

Have you tried to refuse to blow into a booze-and-drug detector after being flagged down?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #20 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:37pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:29pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 2:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:40pm:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:15pm:

Would not happen in Australia. Border Force can legally detain people at the border for examination.

He was in the USA and insisted his rights be respected.

I'm sure you're right, but what right weren't they respecting?

His right to have unrestricted movement in the USA. That is why all those Officers gave way. They had no 'probable cause' to detain him. That being the case, and that he insisted on his rights (as everyone should) they had no option but to wave him goodbye.

But why would they wave him down in the first place?

Ask Stanley Milgram.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #21 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:37pm

The US government should be highly embarrassed by this candid camera video footage.

Maybe it was a State thing?

I've never seen anything like it. Uniformed and badged officers fronting up as though they had the law on their side, only to then collapse into an embarrassed heap when this fellow stared them down.

Quite bizarre.

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« Last Edit: Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 6:54pm by Lord Herbert »

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138249 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #22 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:42pm Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:37pm: Uniformed and badged officers fronting up as though they had the law on their side, only to then collapse into an embarrassed heap when this fellow stared them down. A uniform and badge doesn't entitle you to do anything you like.
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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #23 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:45pm I believe the reason the citizens are getting away with it is because they are recording it on video which means they have evidence that they requested being informed of probable cause of which there was none.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #24 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:47pm

Unforgiven wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:45pm:

I believe the reason the citizens are getting away with it is because they are recording it on video which means they have evidence that they requested being informed of probable cause of which there was none.

Yes.

Without video evidence, they'd have the poo kicked out of them.

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Aussie

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #25 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 6:06pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:29pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 2:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:40pm:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:15pm:

Would not happen in Australia. Border Force can legally detain people at the border for examination.

He was in the USA and insisted his rights be respected.

I'm sure you're right, but what right weren't they respecting?

His right to have unrestricted movement in the USA. That is why all those Officers gave way. They had no 'probable cause' to detain him. That being the case, and that he insisted on his rights (as everyone should) they had no option but to wave him goodbye.

But why would they wave him down in the first place?

Have you tried to refuse to blow into a booze-and-drug detector after being flagged down?

No, and no-one in Australia should, because we have State Legislation which empowers the Cops to conduct random breath tests.

My guess is that there is no such thing in the USA. Sure, a Copper can intercept a vehicle but there still, I think, has to be that probable cause (our term is reasonable suspicion) ingredient.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #26 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 6:56pm greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:42pm: A uniform and badge doesn't entitle you to do anything you like. Let's assume we're not idiots here, okay?
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #27 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 6:06pm:

No, and no-one in Australia should, because we have State Legislation which empowers the Cops to conduct random breath tests.

My guess is that there is no such thing in the USA. Sure, a Copper can intercept a vehicle but there still, I think, has to be that probable cause (our term is reasonable suspicion) ingredient.

If this is a 'gray area' in US law then it's time they fixed it up.

What did those uniforms entitle those US official to do, if anything?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138249 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #28 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:08pm Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 6:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 5:42pm: A uniform and badge doesn't entitle you to do anything you like. Let's assume we're not idiots here, okay? That's a mighty big assumption to be makin' in these parts.
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Aussie

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #29 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:10pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 6:06pm:

No, and no-one in Australia should, because we have State Legislation which empowers the Cops to conduct random breath tests.

My guess is that there is no such thing in the USA. Sure, a Copper can intercept a vehicle but there still, I think, has to be that probable cause (our term is reasonable suspicion) ingredient.

If this is a 'gray area' in US law then it's time they fixed it up.

What did those uniforms entitle those US official to do, if anything?

I don't know, but it looks like they can ask someone to do something or answer a question....but the person being asked can say, "No, thank you, and am I free to leave. Am I detained?"

That's fine by me.

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