Australian Politics Forum - Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...

Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #30 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:28pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:10pm:

I don't know, but it looks like they can ask someone to do something or answer a question....but the person being asked can say, "No, thank you, and am I free to leave. Am I detained?"

That's fine by me.

It's totally new to my experience.

They shouldn't be wearing those police-style uniforms if they have absolutely zero authority to direct the public to do something.

They should be wearing white laboratory smocks like some Car Park attendants wear.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #31 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:29pm ..
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Aussie

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #32 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:48pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:10pm:

I don't know, but it looks like they can ask someone to do something or answer a question....but the person being asked can say, "No, thank you, and am I free to leave. Am I detained?"

That's fine by me.

It's totally new to my experience.

They shouldn't be wearing those police-style uniforms if they have absolutely zero authority to direct the public to do something.

They should be wearing white laboratory smocks like some Car Park attendants wear.

But, weren't you, as you said you were, a senior officer of the London Metropolitan Police at 19 years of age?

Cool

Having reminded Herbert of that......

Ya see, that is how dumb most people are and the Coppers know/exploit it. They wear badges and uniforms, their 'duck eye' sunglasses, all the whistles and bells and ask people to do stuff and answer them. When they are confronted with someone who knows their rights, they become marsh mellows.

Knowing what your rights are is very important.

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« Last Edit: Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:30pm by Aussie »

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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #33 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:20pm Why would anyone support the actions of these officers to detain anyone they felt like for no valid reason?
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38801 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #34 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:31pm rhino wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:20pm: Why would anyone support the actions of these officers to detain anyone they felt like for no valid reason? Who is?
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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #35 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:37pm Yeah? whos Who?
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Dnarever

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #36 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:48pm

cods wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:37pm:

miketrees wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 12:51pm:

I could not stand watching that right through.

I hope he got smashed at some point.

this is what the world is coming too thumbing their noses at the rules and regulations...it only starts in a small way..

these guys are doing their job... and its quite dangerous I would think.....

like taking a breathaliser..... if its too bloody hard spend a couple of hours in the paddy over there till I get back to you... > Sad

the fact that the guy was filming himself says it all....

The check points constitute a breach of the American constitution if people are stopped without due cause. In the US constitution the police or any authority have to have a reason to stop and question anyone.

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Dnarever

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #37 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 10:00pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 7:06pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 6:06pm:

No, and no-one in Australia should, because we have State Legislation which empowers the Cops to conduct random breath tests.

My guess is that there is no such thing in the USA. Sure, a Copper can intercept a vehicle but there still, I think, has to be that probable cause (our term is reasonable suspicion) ingredient.

If this is a 'gray area' in US law then it's time they fixed it up.

What did those uniforms entitle those US official to do, if anything?

It would not matter what uniform they were wearing - the Police are under the same constitutional restraints. The 4th amendment gives US citizen's the right to not be interfered with unless there is due cause. It must be reasonable that the person is suspected of something.

Randomly stopping people or as in this case stopping everyone is a clear breach of their constitution. The 4th amendment dates back to 1792.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #38 - Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 11:44pm

miketrees wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 12:51pm:

I could not stand watching that right through.

I hope he got smashed at some point.

I have watched a number of these videos. In Australia, he would have been dragged from his car after a refusal to answer a question and then a request, and detained. Screw his "rights". He should be responsible for just answering a question, and then going about his way.

What is the point of having checkpoints if people don't want to answer a question? Australia's ecosystem would crumble if our border control was as soft as America's.

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At this stage...

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #39 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 7:33am

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 11:44pm:

miketrees wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 12:51pm:

I could not stand watching that right through.

I hope he got smashed at some point.

I have watched a number of these videos. In Australia, he would have been dragged from his car after a refusal to answer a question and then a request, and detained. Screw his "rights". He should be responsible for just answering a question, and then going about his way.

Its easy to be dismissive of rights when its somebody else whose rights are being 'screwed'.

It is a well regarded right, clearly, in the US, that prevents the abuse of detain and search actions by those in (apparent) authority.

The border guards would have had the right to detain and search if, on stopping the vehicle, they had the 'probable cause' required to proceed... What this video is showing, I think, is the officers constructing 'probable cause'... What does it mean to answer one simple question in this context? Does it reasonably permit the officer to ask and expect ID, as the driver has made a statement about his nationality? Does it mean the driver has acknowledged the authority of the officer? What does it mean to comply with the officer and leave the vehicle? Would the driver no longer be in a private place for the purposes of 4th Amendment rights? The female officer in the video who finally yielded and quickly lifted the tarp on the back of the truck was indicating she was well aware of the 4th Amendment issue from the start (that does allow for a quick search)...

The officers were not being honest when they persisted with their questioning, knowing, as they would, that they did not have the right to proceed to detaining and searching... Unless the driver voluntarily yielded to their request or left the vehicle... A version of entrapment more than good 'policing'.

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Dnarever

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #40 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 7:50am

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 11:44pm:

miketrees wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 12:51pm:

I could not stand watching that right through.

I hope he got smashed at some point.

I have watched a number of these videos. In Australia, he would have been dragged from his car after a refusal to answer a question and then a request, and detained. Screw his "rights". He should be responsible for just answering a question, and then going about his way.

What is the point of having checkpoints if people don't want to answer a question? Australia's ecosystem would crumble if our border control was as soft as America's.

I have crossed every Australian border without ever being asked a question by anyone ? Most people know to not carry fruit across boarders anyway.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74817 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #41 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 7:52am rhino wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:20pm: Why would anyone support the actions of these officers to detain anyone they felt like for no valid reason? so if the police stop a muslim and are concerned he might be a terrorist, but have no proof, you don't think they should be allowed to stop him?
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #42 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 8:05am

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 11:44pm:

miketrees wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 12:51pm:

I could not stand watching that right through.

I hope he got smashed at some point.

I have watched a number of these videos. In Australia, he would have been dragged from his car after a refusal to answer a question and then a request, and detained. Screw his "rights". He should be responsible for just answering a question, and then going about his way.

What is the point of having checkpoints if people don't want to answer a question? Australia's ecosystem would crumble if our border control was as soft as America's.

Damn right.

This smartalec was lucky he didn't end up getting the sort of beating that put Rodney King in hospital.

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Dnarever

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #43 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 8:08am

John Smith wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 7:52am:

rhino wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:20pm:

Why would anyone support the actions of these officers to detain anyone they felt like for no valid reason?

so if the police stop a muslim and are concerned he might be a terrorist, but have no proof, you don't think they should be allowed to stop him?

Racial profiling is still a tough question. Every one is free and protected by the constitution unless you look like a Muslim ?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #44 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 8:08am

John Smith wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 7:52am:

rhino wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 9:20pm:

Why would anyone support the actions of these officers to detain anyone they felt like for no valid reason?

so if the police stop a muslim and are concerned he might be a terrorist, but have no proof, you don't think they should be allowed to stop him?

In Australia we do not have as much regard for rights than the US... Probably comes from our history of submissiveness to British authority given that the US 'Bill of Rights' rose from reactions against previous British (mis)rule.

The question is ... Should the people forgo rights to protection from random detain and search, leaving them in a state of presumed suspicion. Given that the likelihood any person randomly detained is probably 99.999% likely to be innocent, Americans prefer protection for that majority...

Having said all that, even the US practises racial profiling when detaining at borders... Apparently.

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