Australian Politics Forum - Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...

Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #75 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:54am John Smith wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:42am: Yes ... it's the cost of living in a safe society. Precisely. (John's on a roll today).
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #76 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:54am ...
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #77 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:55am ..
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #78 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:55am

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:53am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:41am:

I wouldn't so much call it racial profiling, more 'gut instinct' ... a lot of good police work has been done in the past when police follow their guts.

Exactly.

They develop an acute ability to read the sort of stress on people's faces that belie the fact they are hiding something.

Hmmm... Andrew Mallard? Lindy Chamberlain?

Not infallible, then...

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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John Smith

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #79 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:56am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:48am:

Is it?

yes , it is.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:48am:

History shows that at the very least it doesn't make us safe from tyranny...

we live in Australia, not Zimbabwe ... we have our checks and balances to prevent that. I'm not saying they had a right to strip search him, but something as simple as showing ID when driving a car, especially in an area with a huge smuggler problem .... it's friggen ridiculous.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #80 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:59am

John Smith wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:56am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:48am:

History shows that at the very least it doesn't make us safe from tyranny...

we live in Australia, not Zimbabwe ... we have our checks and balances to prevent that. I'm not saying they had a right to strip search him, but something as simple as showing ID when driving a car, especially in an area with a huge smuggler problem .... it's friggen ridiculous.

Yes and those 'check and balances' are where rights and constraints come in, I guess.

Do you think anyone should be able to ask for ID? Like, say, a parking ticket inspector? Or a council worker? Because its clear those officers did not have police powers... As police officers do have the power to request and expect at least driver's licence and registration..

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #81 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:03am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:52am:

Anyway... To venture beyond pedantry (dare you?)... The driver was right, then, when he declined to respond... As the 'request' turned out to be nothing more than a 'conversation starter'...

Legally correct, morally incorrect.

There are notices in nearly all Supermarkets which say:

"It is a condition of sale in this Supermarket that bags may be searched by our staff".

People believe this notice carries weight in law, and that the staff are legally entitled to search your bag.

Utterly false.

At no time are they legally entitled to search your bag within the confines of the shop, or outside of the premises.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ... Reply #82 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:04am John Smith wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:56am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:48am: Is it? yes , it is. How do we measure when the cost is too high? Like what happened to East Germans?
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #83 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am

John Smith wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:56am:

we live in Australia, not Zimbabwe ... we have our checks and balances to prevent that. I'm not saying they had a right to strip search him, but something as simple as showing ID when driving a car, especially in an area with a huge smuggler problem .... it's friggen ridiculous.

Post of the Day.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #84 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:07am

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:03am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 9:52am:

Anyway... To venture beyond pedantry (dare you?)... The driver was right, then, when he declined to respond... As the 'request' turned out to be nothing more than a 'conversation starter'...

Legally correct, morally incorrect.

So the attempt to exercise unlawful authority is moral? For whom?

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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it_is_the_light

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #85 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:20am

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 3:07pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 2:22pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:40pm:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2016 at 1:15pm:

Would not happen in Australia. Border Force can legally detain people at the border for examination.

He was in the USA and insisted his rights be respected.

I'm sure you're right, but what right weren't they respecting?

His right to have unrestricted movement in the USA. That is why all those Officers gave way. They had no 'probable cause' to detain him. That being the case, and that he insisted on his rights (as everyone should) they had no option but to wave him goodbye.

many blessings and yes this is the fact

we are sovereign beings of this earth and need not

the permission or approval from governments to be here .. simple facts

nomatter how much people repeat fear based realities

this fact remains

and so be it

namaste

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ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #86 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:22am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:07am:

So the attempt to exercise unlawful authority is moral? For whom?

Nobody said they had the 'authority' to search the booth. None of these uniformed personnel claimed to have the authority to make a search, any more than the girls at the Supermarket checkout counters claim to have The Authority to check your bag.

What do you do when the girl at the checkout counter asks if you would mind her checking your bag?

Honest answer now.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #87 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:29am

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:22am:

Nobody said they had the 'authority' to search the booth. None of these uniformed personnel claimed to have the authority to make a search, any more than the girls at the Supermarket checkout counters claim to have The Authority to check your bag.

They do have the right to check your bag.

They can't touch the contents, though.

And, customers have the right to refuse the inspection (in which case, they can be asked to leave the store and never return).

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #88 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:33am

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:29am:

They do have the right to check your bag.

Wrong.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:29am:

And, customers have the right to refuse the inspection

Correct.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:29am:

(in which case, they can be asked to leave the store and never return).

Wrong.

It is against the law to refuse a customer service.

Back to the Drawing Board, Boyo.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Here's a smartalec making a pest of himself ...
Reply #89 - Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:37am

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:33am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:29am:

They do have the right to check your bag.

Wrong.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:29am:

And, customers have the right to refuse the inspection

Correct.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2016 at 10:29am:

(in which case, they can be asked to leave the store and never return).

Wrong.

It is against the law to refuse a customer service.

Back to the Drawing Board, Boyo.

Back to the drawing board for you, Her-bert.

I am, as usual, correct.

"By entering a shop which has clearly displayed signs that bag checks are conducted, you accept the shopkeeper’s right to ask you to open your bags for checking.

"The shopkeeper’s right to check your bags also includes checking cartons, parcels or any other container you are carrying that could reasonably conceal goods.

"If you refuse to allow shop staff to check your bags you can be asked to leave the shop and not return."

Link

"A customer enters a store under licence and retailers are able to search any bags, containers, parcels, or other items that may potentially be used to shoplift, however, retailers must display a prominent sign at the entrance stating that a condition upon entering the store, is the intention to check bags.

"When a bag search is conducted no items are allowed to be touched with the retailer only able to look at the contents inside the bag. Customers do have the right to refuse to have their bag searched, but since a customer enters a store under licence, the retailer also has the right to ask a person to leave, therefore revoking the licence."

Link

At least you've learned something today.

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