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What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. . (Read 7729 times)
Belgarion
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What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Oct 20th, 2016 at 3:59pm
 
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/the-world-is-getting-greener-why-does-no-one-...


Of course it's obvious to anyone who attended school that increased CO2 means increased plant growth. The natural cycle of the environment has shown us this many times.  However this awkward fact does not suit the environazis or the religious fanatics of the Cult of Warming.
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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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Jovial Monk
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #1 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 4:49pm
 
Maybe it is the higher water content of the atmosphere is causing more plant growth?

As CO2 concentration increases and night time minimum temperatures get higher plants lose the ability to take in nitrogen and eventually the plants can’t even absorb CO2!

Nope, we need to decrease CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.
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lee
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #2 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 5:23pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 4:49pm:
Maybe it is the higher water content of the atmosphere is causing more plant growth?



How much extra rain where we get "greening of the deserts"?
Are you saying the CSIRO is wrong?

http://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2013/Deserts-greening-from-rising-CO2

'The relaxation time (amount of time that passes between absorption and emission of a photon by a molecule) for CO2 in the atmosphere is about 6 microseconds [5, 6]. The elapsed time between collisions between gaseous molecules at sea level average temperature and pressure is about 0.0002 microseconds [7]. Thus it is approximately 6/0.0002 = 30,000 times more likely that a CO2 molecule, after it has absorbed a photon, will bump into another molecule, losing at least part of the quantum of energy it acquired from the photon. After multiple collisions, essentially all of the added photonic energy becomes distributed among other molecules and the probability of the CO2 molecule emitting a photon at sea level conditions becomes negligible.'

http://globalclimatedrivers2.blogspot.com

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 4:49pm:
As CO2 concentration increases and night time minimum temperatures get higher plants lose the ability to take in nitrogen and eventually the plants can’t even absorb CO2!



Citation needed.

At what level do plants cease to absorb CO2? Commercial greenhouses suggest 1500ppm is the point at which you start to get diminishing returns

'New study confirms water vapor as global warming amplifier'

http://phys.org/news/2014-07-vapor-global-amplifier.html

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 4:49pm:
Nope, we need to decrease CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.



To what level? At about 190ppm plants start to die.
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« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2016 at 5:30pm by lee »  
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #3 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 7:35pm
 
below 400ppm would be good.

You missed the significance of plants not taking up nitrogen? No nitrogen no protein!
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miketrees
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #4 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 8:04pm
 



There is still an issue if the sea is becoming more acidic.

Fair go I said "if"
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Jovial Monk
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #5 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 8:34pm
 
The seas are becoming more acidic or, if you like, less alkaline and that is having drastic effects on zooplankton.
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miketrees
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #6 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 8:41pm
 



JM I think its taking out the coral,,, but that could be in the plankton stage.

It could be the whole genetic makeup of the sealife has to adapt to re-establish itself.
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lee
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep increase inQuiet. .
Reply #7 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 8:55pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 7:35pm:
below 400ppm would be good.

You missed the significance of plants not taking up nitrogen? No nitrogen no protein!


If you have a look at protein in say Weetbix, 2 biscuits gets you less than 10% of your daily balance.

', growth of plants at elevated CO2 concentrations of 475–600 ppm increases leaf photosynthetic rates by an average of 40% (Ainsworth & Rogers 2007). Carbon dioxide concentrations are also important in regulating the openness of stomata, pores through which plants exchange gasses, with the external environment. Open stomata allow CO2 to diffuse into leaves for photosynthesis, but also provide a pathway for water to diffuse out of leaves. Plants therefore regulate the degree of stomatal opening (related to a measure known as stomatal conductance) as a compromise between the goals of maintaining high rates of photosynthesis and low rates of water loss. As CO2 concentrations increase, plants can maintain high photosynthetic rates with relatively low stomatal conductance.'

'Elevated CO2 also leads to changes in the chemical composition of plant tissues. Due to increased photosynthetic activity, leaf nonstructural carbohydrates (sugars and starches) per unit leaf area increase on average by 30–40% under FACE elevated CO2 (Ainsworth 2008; Ainsworth & Long 2005). Leaf nitrogen concentrations in plant tissues typically decrease in FACE under elevated CO2, with nitrogen per unit leaf mass decreasing on average by 13% (Ainsworth & Long 2005).'

' Effects on human nutrition are likely as well. In FACE experiments, protein concentrations in grains of wheat, rice and barley, and in potato tubers, are decreased by 5–14% under elevated CO2 (Taub et al. 2008). '

http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/effects-of-rising-atmospheric-c...

So up to a 40% increase in yield. Protein down by 5-14%. But proteins, from plants, are not solely or even a large portion of a diet.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 8:34pm:
The seas are becoming more acidic or, if you like, less alkaline and that is having drastic effects on zooplankton.



Citation needed.


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miketrees
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #8 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 9:01pm
 
Lee

The drop in protein percentage could be due to dilution.

As the plant can produce more starch and sugar.

Perhaps the total protein would be a better measure.

Drought affected crops of wheat generally have high protien levels, as the protein is stored in the seed first then the strarches are stored later.
So the crop yeild is way down but proteins are good.
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lee
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #9 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 9:09pm
 
'The shell game has been of particular interest to me after reading a scientific letter “Volcanic carbon dioxide vents show ecosystem effects of ocean acidification” published in Nature a couple of years ago. Since then there has been a deluge of alarmist warnings on “Ocean Acidification” – including one in the Feb/March issue of Dive Pacific from an organization called the “International Union for the Conservation of Nature” – but no actual reefs destroyed by it, of course.'

'The reason for my scepticism was my own well-publicised underwater observations at Dobu Island in Milne Bay where CO2 vents bubble through a thriving coral reef. Just maybe, I thought, these people do not a have a clue what they are writing about. So when they approached me to see if they could dive Dobu I said of course, but that I was not interested in cherry picking data to conform to any conspiracy to promote Anthropogenic Global Warming. Interestingly I never heard back from them.'

http://www.halsteaddiving.com/adult-section-stories/global-fawning/the-shell-gam...
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miketrees
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #10 - Oct 20th, 2016 at 9:47pm
 


Well played Lee
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Jovial Monk
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #11 - Oct 21st, 2016 at 9:54am
 
miketrees wrote on Oct 20th, 2016 at 9:01pm:
Lee

The drop in protein percentage could be due to dilution.

As the plant can produce more starch and sugar.

Perhaps the total protein would be a better measure.

Drought affected crops of wheat generally have high protien levels, as the protein is stored in the seed first then the strarches are stored later.
So the crop yeild is way down but proteins are good.

No, as night time minimum temperatures rise the plant is less able to absorb nitrogen. In greenhouses you can increase nitrogen in the fertiliser used. Over the bulk of the countryside—nope nope nope.

Animals concentrate plant protein.

Weetbix is foul crap!
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #12 - Oct 21st, 2016 at 11:34am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 21st, 2016 at 9:54am:
No, as night time minimum temperatures rise the plant is less able to absorb nitrogen.



'The effects of night temperature on plant morphology and nitrogen accumulation were examined in rice (Oryza sativa L.) during vegetative growth. The results showed that the shoot biomass of the plants was greater at 27°C (high nighttime temperature, HNT) than at 22°C (CK). However, the increase in both shoot and root biomasses was not significant under 10 mg N/L. The shoot nitrogen concentrations were 16.1% and 16.7% higher in HNT than in CK under 160 and 40 mg N/L. These results suggest that plant N uptake was enhanced under HNT; however, the positive effect might be limited by the N status of the plants. '

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2013/649326/

' The results show that, on average, night-time temperatures increased by 0.9°C under night-time covered (NC) treatment compared with the uncovered (CK). Plant total N accumulation was 17–43% higher in NC treatment than CK during the jointing, anthesis and ripening stages''

www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.4141/cjps2012-044#.WAlvqLXAPtQ

Now unless you have some peer-reviewed papers that support your position, rather than some personal intuition.....?
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #13 - Oct 21st, 2016 at 12:06pm
 
Find something about widescale vegetation.
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lee
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Re: What the Greenies Want to Keep Quiet. .
Reply #14 - Oct 21st, 2016 at 3:31pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 21st, 2016 at 12:06pm:
Find something about widescale vegetation.


Why? You're the one making the claims?\. Wink
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